(We don't need to take it to the bedroom just yet, but if/when we decide that's what WE want, we must be safe, respected, and have no expectations.)
I interpret what labug said to mean that: For our marriages to thrive, we spouses must supply a sustainable/honest/authentic expression of the following traits that OWs appear to embody. (And some that OM do as well. ) It means, WE HAVE TO CHANGE. Even if it appears to us that we have done "nothing wrong", there are things we could have been "doing right" but haven't been for whatever reason.
We need to find a positive way of bringing some of these same qualities into our marriages. Whether it's accepting his opinion even if we disagree, choosing to look up to him and see the best in him, not letting his faults or failures be the focus, not letting life become too mundane and predictable--- In short: We should be treating him like a LOVER as much, if not more, than we treat him like "Our HUSBAND".
And we, as spouses, should make sure our identity also encompasses an identity of ourselves as "ME" in addition to "H's Wife". That means GALing forever, not just for now. It makes us more interesting people for him to know and brings vitality into the M.
OW QUALITIES:
Often the OW is a subordinate, underling, less intimidating, someone he can feel superior to, as in "affair down".
She is usually younger. YOUNGER = EASILY IMPRESSED! Younger women are more naive, and easily manipulated.
If she's the same age or older, she probably has "issues" or "baggage". Take your pick.
If she has "problems", (not caused by him, as our problems are now), that mean he gets to "rescue her".
He needs to feel needed and that he has value as a provider and protector.
OW may have an expectation, real or imagined, that H will be able to "provide for her", (and her kids!), BECAUSE, she sees him doing this for us!
She may see him as a "cash cow". His ability to provide for her is often the prime attractor.
She *may* want "our life" and seek to replace us. (Ahhh.. if only she KNEW!!!)
H--- as a married man, with a wife who loves him, a family, and a ring, is more attractive for OW than a lonely guy on the outs with his wife. With Us: He has proven himself to be "marriage material". Without Us: He's the aging loser chasing young girls at nightclubs. Then he's just "THAT guy." FACT.
She may have low-self esteem and be willing to do things to get the "love" she wants by using sex as a lure.
She sees him as he chooses to present himself. Only his best side is evident.
She listens to him, validates him, doesn't challenge him much, if ever.
She is often unwilling to assert herself or state HER needs.
He's in charge, he's right, he's in control.
He has a wife and family; he is not always available. He sets the pace, he sets the rules.
She is not in a position to make demands or exert pressure.
He is RESPECTED, not challenged.
His opinions and ideas are most important.
She believes what he tells her. She believes the best of him.
She probably believes she is "in love" with him. Shoot. Who wouldn't fall in love with our Hs if all they ever saw were their best qualities?
He probably believes he is "in love" with her. And no wonder. All he feels is GOOD. This must be love, right?
Her attentions and "love" FEEDS H's ego-- he FEELS loved. He FEELS desired. HE FEELS younger... It doesn't matter that it's an illusion. It's how he "feels" and at this stage, his feelings are more important than reality. (Especially our reality!)
Her needs come second, his needs come first. She is OK with this. At least early on.
Often she is a subordinate co-worker, therefore they can talk about work in ways we can't.
She only sees him in a powerful role as he presents himself. (On the job, traveling, at work.)
Consistent, positive work interactions solidify his status as superior to hers and feed the relationship in a positive way.
Consistent, positive interactions fuel the fantasy that the other is a perfect "soul mate". Reality does not intrude on this.
It's exciting! Forbidden! He feels "alive". There is an element of fear--of discovery, and all the fall-out.
They may spend more time together at work than we do with our Hs at home.
When they see each other, they are both on their best behavior, looking and smelling their best.
They flirt with each other, stay in contact, and make plans to be together.
They are each other's focus.
They think about each other, do things for each other, give gifts, cards, are suggestive and sexual, they feed the relationship. They don't take it for granted. They keep it fresh.
She does many of the things we stopped doing-- because life intervened. OW don't have the shared responsibilities that we do, so their time is devoted to making him feel "special".
They may go home to other people, spouses, children, or have other responsibilities. They have separate lives that the other knows little about.
There is a lot of mystery, a lot of projection, and fantasy fills in the gaps.
There is little commitment, few expectations, and no boring responsibilities.
She strokes his ego!
She feeds his fantasy image of her. She only shows herself as she wants to be seen.
They both can convince themselves that this is "REAL LOVE" because of how they FEEL.
When they're with the OW, they feel GOOD. They feel HAPPY. They feel APPRECIATED.
I don't think I'm far off the mark. After all, how many OW do we know about who are attractive, accomplished, available, self-sufficient, age-appropriate, have full lives, have their heads screwed on straight, know what they want, are happy, fulfilled, have great self-esteem and no baggage? Not too many, I'd bet!
Obviously, there are things on this list that would be distasteful in a real partnership, however, part of our responsibility as wives is to provide a lot of the same good feelings and interactions.
My friends who have been married a long time have said as much to me: "Men are like little boys. They constantly have to be told they're doing a good job, how much you appreciate them, how much you need them...." I see they are RIGHT!
We think we're being great spouses by being accomplished, capable, able to handle things... when, in fact, that intimidates the crap out of the average guy.
(Enter the long list of all the sweet, attractive, accomplished, smart, savvy, capable women I know whose Hs have left them for the 20 year old girl at the Smoothie Shop or the new receptionist they just hired...)
It's certainly food for thought!
----GGG
PS: My "Maybell" is on my lap as I write this. And only having one eye means she's winking atcha!
PPS: Sorry this is long, sorry if it's a hijack. Just got my brain firing on this idea and it was hard to quit.
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
I don't mind acting like an affair partner when she's more like Diane de Poitiers than a pole-dancing porn tramp.
Your list describes my H's OW to a T. I don't know how their relationship impacted her but I doubt it helped a whole lot. I don't see her as a malicious homewrecker at all -- I could have been her in my early twenties.
I have a friend who always refers to her H as "lover." Not "my lover" but just "lover." On Facebook, especially. It makes everyone around her uncomfortable (especially since she has kind of a frumpy, uptight demeanor) and I don't know what her H thinks -- but it sure shows where her mind is.
Bus vs. car... For probably our entire marriage, I have felt like I was riding in his bus. I had my own career when we were dating but I hated that particular line of work and I wanted a more well-rounded life than what I was going to get in that profession. So I moved to a lower-stress department within the firm where we both worked so I could provide a home-base because he enjoyed his career and traveled a lot more. I guess you could say I took on a codependent role from the time I got my ring. We've lived in four different states for his job, I just follow him around where he wants his career to take him. I supported the first move; after that, I wanted to stay put, and he wanted to go, and we went. I made myself give up my objections because I wanted him to be happy, but I didn't entirely give up the resentment over it, especially because it didn't work out very well. So yeah, he was driving a bus that carried our entire family. I'm sure that was a lot of pressure for him, especially given that the move I objected to turned out poorly.
Now I'm detaching and I have my own car and he has his own car. It's actually one of my fears about reconciling -- because I'm not going to want to move again, and he may. And if my parents are right and he wants to move closer to his parents... I don't know how I'm going to handle that.
Guess I'll jump off that bridge if we ever get to it.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
I had to Google "Diane de Poitiers" but when I did, I agreed wholeheartedly.
I'm curious to see if your H begins to resent you having your own "transportation" these days.
Just stay off the bridges, OK?
(Crossing is good, jumping---not so much )
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Grr... I seem to have misplaced my detachment. Has anyone seen it??
Oh man...there are good days and bad days, right? I can definitely see the value of keeping a journal. Yesterday was a little bit of a hot mess for me, too!
Two steps forward, one step back is how my detachment has been lately for me. I do think it great how DB has you think about much more of the larger picture. Hope today is a better day for you and us all :-)
Me 34 M 2.5 (Both 2nd M) My kids-D 17,S 16,S 12 BD 2/14 D final 7/2014
I hear you Maybell. Haven't posted on my own thread in a while, partly because I feel like my emotions are on such a rollercoaster sometimes. Hang in there.
That's much more analysis of the OW than I would ever indulge in but if it helps...
Basically I'm saying, go back to what you (hopefully) had at some time.
Even now you can smile when you see him, be authentic and loving and open and vulnerable. (don't worry we all get stuck on that one)
About your feelings today, see what happens over the next few days. For me those lows preceded moving to a new level, much like kids get cranky, restless, sleepless when going through a developmental milestone.
Sit with the yuckiness, it will pass.
Last edited by labug; 07/02/1403:13 PM.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Labug I have the sample of the book you recommended on my Kindle but it made me cry just to open it because reading the reviews made me so aware of how thoroughly I have failed at understanding him. I'm going to give it a few days to sit on just the overview from the review and to see how things are with him & me when I see him this weekend. He's been a little distant since Sunday night.
My good friend who has been helping me with everything was at the little get together on Sunday night and said that on the way home she and her husband (who called my H "douchey" the last time he saw him) both were talking about how we looked so good together and it seemed inevitable that we would get back together. That was NOT good for managing my expectations.
Today has been interesting. I've been wishing and wishing for him to be back and then thinking, "Why is that?" So many years felt so lonely (Labug, I DID look up and kiss him and hug him whenever he came in, right up to the end when he was trying to get away from me) that I'm having to work at remembering what I enjoy about living with him. It can't just be about the kids or "having" a husband. It has to be what he brings to the relationship that I want to preserve.
It is true that when we are together I really do enjoy his company. I like hearing how his mind works, when he's willing to share it with me. I'm impressed that he has achieved a lot of career success at a really early age. All those things have flip sides to them that I have to struggle to give the right amount of weight. Just because the flip sides that hurt our relationship were heavier than the things I enjoyed about him doesn't mean they'll be that way if we manage to rebuild.
He's attractive. (He doesn't think so but I do) He has a great smile. He has interests that are different than mine that I enjoy learning about. He has interests similar to mine that I enjoy getting the benefit of (like book suggestions) We have history together on things that really matter to me -- aside from the kids and our moves, etc., he taught me to cook, we learned to enjoy wine together, he explained baseball to me...
He's not the dad I would have picked for my kids if I had been looking for that when I was 23. He doesn't always respect the research I do into parenting and the environment, which is super frustrating because he'll say that he will go along with something that I want to do and then just ignore it. He has hurt me, very deeply, in a highly visible manner, and he's been dishonest with his family about what got him to this point (I have had a sometimes strained relationship with his mother, especially). I worry about his drinking and I don't expect that to change. I have dreamed of going on a particular trip since we've known one another and he has put it off and put it off and never taken me (although he did rendezvous with OW there because that's the country where she lives; but he didn't do any of the things on my list with her).
And yet in spite of these complaints I still want the opportunity to make things right with him. There are limits to what I will do to achieve it. I think there's some real anger in there at him that needs to be dealt with; I've barely felt it lately. Something about that apartment both makes my blood boil and also makes me feel like this is all a game, because it's so clearly the sort of space that is not a long-term solution. Maybe game is the wrong word... but a lot of the time the things he's doing seem to be not quite real to him, as though he doesn't really get that they have real consequences. The IC has commented on it too.
I'm sorry for the novel. Writing it has taken some of the urgency off my heart and restored my patience, so I thank you all for yours. I had a great morning with my kids and lots to look forward to for the rest of the day. I appreciate you all speaking up in support of my rough morning. Sometimes seeing how so many people feel similar things on the same days makes me wonder if there might not really be something to the idea of the stars controlling us...
Last edited by Maybell; 07/02/1404:05 PM. Reason: typo
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
