Grey, My thought is that she finally opened up to you and started telling you what was in her heart. This was the perfect opportunity to listen, and validate, to hear FROM HER all of the answers to the questions that you have been asking on here. Instead, you talked, and told her about YOUR suffering and issues. That's why she didn't participate. You steamrolled over her.
Women are attracted to people they admire. If you were to ask her who she admired, what would her answer be? She as much as told you it's not you (it used to be). Is there someone else that she is attracted to now?
I hope you get another opportunity like the one you had last night. Like a poked turtle, she will withdrawel into her shell since it wasn't safe enough for her to get her feelings out. Over time, her head may come back out of the shell. When it does, LISTEN! Don't dominate her back into withdrawel. She's heard all about YOUR issues, isn't it time you heard hers?
-HS
I don’t get it.
She’s not heard my issues before. I mentioned it once.
Once. And that wasn’t done right. And she has mentioned her needs plenty, and I’ve adapted over time. I talked to her not just because of advice, or books, or Michele, or even this forum, but ultimately because of my own therapist.
I never ask her for anything, and that’s part of the problem-----I’ve never put any boundaries on her, nor asked for anything.
Is there someone else that she’s attracted to? I don’t think so, no.
Look, the inherent problem is talking with her about anything we have a problem with makes her afraid right from the get go. She doesn’t see it as an opportunity to strengthen the relationship, and what I found out last night from her is that’s not my fault, it’s from being treated lousy by lousy guys in the past for years (and part of why I feel so confused is she had lots of sex with these lousy guys she didn’t love but doesn’t have sex with the guy who listens to her and she loves).
I get that it’s all about her needs for some people here BECAUSE of how people perceive my need. I had to explain that it was a need to be closer to her, not just a receptacle or an “itch to scratch.” I get that people are going to disagree with me here, but I took professional advice and, frankly, it seems to have helped both of us, it’s just not the end of the story is all. You make it sound like she didn’t speak, but she did, for maybe the first time, and while I’m sure she probably didn’t get it all out, at least it’s something.
Like, I hear what you’re saying about her finally opening up some, but isn’t the trick that she finally opened up only because I talked to her in the first place about where I’m at? She didn’t open up much, and she put the blame on me and took no responsibility for her own, isn’t that part of the issue more than the advice I was given to open up the way you’re saying she needed to open up?
Grey, Arguing with my view is pointless. What is it you'd like me to write to make you feel better and I'll cut and paste it for you in my next post. That's what you want, isn't it? You simply don't want to hear what anyone has to say to you here- every post receives a retort from you. If you know so much, why aren't you having S with your wife? I have plenty with mine.
I pointed out how you talked "over" your W instead of listening. Oddly enough (*cough* *cough*) that's just what you do on here. Strange how that works, isn't it? Perhaps I'm seeing EXACTLY what your W does.
Stop rebutting- this isn't a court. We're posting here to help you, not hurt you. I want you to have S with your wife, and I want your W to WANT to have S with you! Slow down, listen, listen, listen, think, listen , think, then talk.
I'm heading out for vacation, so best of luck. -HS
^^^ I was thinking the same thing. You have written paragraphs complaining about all the things your wife is doing wrong...and how you are the perfect husband (even she says so, you say!)
So... what would you like us to say? We can't control your wife... and neither can you. Do you want us to agree with you about how awful she is and give you permission to leave her? No one is stopping you.
I haven't heard much about what you think is your role in this... and you are the only thing you can control. And when you get advice or suggestions for what YOU might need to work on, you get defensive and debate every point.
What kind of feedback are you looking for? Solutions, or just empathy?
It probably comes down to control. You don't like things that are out of your control so it's driving you nuts. In fact, just a few weeks without sex and you feel de-valued. You have to have patience through this.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
You seem to be the one always wanting to "talk" about the relationship and "needs" and getting closer, etc.. She doesn't think there is anything wrong and is closed off...
When you have "role reversal" in a relationship, the man starts to come across as more feminine and the woman then starts to take on the masculine traits.
What then happens is that the woman loses respect and her attraction to the man. She can't open up about her feelings because he is always wanting to talk about his feelings. This is subconscious on both the man and woman.
The solution is that the man needs to get back more to his "male" side. In other words, start talking less about his feelings and the relationship and doing more "male" type activities and hobbies....
She won't feel safe talking about her feelings while she worries that you are so sensitive about your feelings..
Your best bet was to just tell her something like... "Hey, I am attracted to you and the bottom line is I want more sex"..
You wanted to get into a deep "feelings and relationship talk" which is usually a feminine trait.. I would assume she again secretly took to the male side and thought.."here he goes again wanting to talk about his feelings and the relationship and I just want to watch this movie and be left alone".....
Grey, Arguing with my view is pointless. What is it you'd like me to write to make you feel better and I'll cut and paste it for you in my next post. That's what you want, isn't it? You simply don't want to hear what anyone has to say to you here- every post receives a retort from you. If you know so much, why aren't you having S with your wife? I have plenty with mine.
I pointed out how you talked "over" your W instead of listening. Oddly enough (*cough* *cough*) that's just what you do on here. Strange how that works, isn't it? Perhaps I'm seeing EXACTLY what your W does.
Stop rebutting- this isn't a court. We're posting here to help you, not hurt you. I want you to have S with your wife, and I want your W to WANT to have S with you! Slow down, listen, listen, listen, think, listen , think, then talk.
I'm heading out for vacation, so best of luck. -HS
That’s not true at all. I have listened plenty. And I’m not trying to argue with you. I also don’t appreciate being belittled, especially here.
The problem I have is that you’re giving advice (and scorning people for not taking it) that doesn’t follow the direction of expert, including doctors, including Michele, and including my own therapist.
I don’t debate every point. I don’t understand how some people say they have noticed no changes. I’ve listed them plenty. I’m working on getting better sleep deliberately (exercise including walking the dogs alone at night, baths at night, no TV or internet after 10 PM, no caffeine or sugar after 8 PM, steady schedule, etc.), training my dogs more (60 minutes a day), getting up with the dogs every day so my wife can get more rest, going to a therapist (how that got past anybody for me trying to change is very confusing), not bringing up (despite talking about it all of two times, once at the advice of many people including my therapist), meditation (new to me), I have a calendar now so planning for us is easier than ever, I’m painting more, playing more music outside of the house, hell I’m putting a group show together with 50+ artists and four bands for September and writing for the #1 magazine in town on the side (talk about GAL).
You say all I do is complain about “all the things your wife is doing wrong.” Listen closely, and you’ll see the only thing my wife is doing wrong is not accepting personal responsibility to compromise and talk about our relationship. The reason why it sounds so negative to you is because I’m trying to find a way to get her to do that, to not walk all over me, to talk to me, to be part of the relationship in a deliberate way rather than just a side effect of being together. For now, we’re roommates. If you read only Michele’s books you’ll hear and recognize all of this. My wife heard me, and no, I didn’t say it perfectly, but she’s more prepared to do something about it, including counseling, I just want her to take the next step, a single step, on her own----when I ask here for advice about how to do that, some people seem to interpret it as how to change my wife to “scratch my itch,” rather than understanding it’s not an itch to scratch; it’s a need, but the need is a side effect of fixing out marriage first. Struggling with that need is something I’m surprised so many people here in particular have chastised me for.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
just a few weeks without sex and you feel de-valued
Yes, that’s right. After a month, I started noticing how bad it felt and how the rejection was affecting me. Nobody can help how they feel, though. We can change how we react to how we feel, and that’s what I’m working on the hardest, but the need doesn’t disappear and the rejection doesn’t stop affecting me, and I’m working on that and hopefully together we will work on that soon in couples counseling, too. Just working on it together is enough for me, but patience can’t come without a price, and no effort to take any responsibility doesn’t work for any marriage no matter what problems there are.
I love my wife. I saw my therapist again yesterday. I’m doing good. I am not doing everything perfectly, but we have to be allowed to make mistakes, as long as I’m trying and BELIEVE there’s hope she will become part of the equation (that doesn’t mean sex alone).
