living with WAW who hasn't walked yet (5)

[Starsky309]

Good deal, Zew. VERY impressive use of this time that you have, and great work at detachment and getting all your ducks in a row.

It's all about the "SWOT" at this point -- Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats. You've done your homework and gotten good counsel as to what you can expect.

I think it's going to come down to whether or not you can manage the damage for the next 14 months. Provided your boundaries are MOSTLY respected, and the kids aren't being further harmed, you're probably wise in your waiting.

I just hope the wild card known as "Wayward Wife" will play nicely with others.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

I may have posted this to you before, but for others following along, I thought it was worth re-posting. It goes to the whole "But I need to DO something!" thing that especially us men have hard-wired into us.


From my personal archives:


On “having a plan,” and “The Schmuck Factor”:


I think you let her know that you are here for her when she is ready to do the work necessary. She clearly isn't ready to do that right now.

It would convey weakness if you were to be supplicating towards her while she was still actively cheating on you, and disrespecting her boundaries. Letting her know that you are willing to suck it up, forgive, love unconditionally and do the hard work of reconciliation -- when she is ready -- does NOT convey weakness, it conveys character and strength.

Many, many people confuse "unconditional love" with "doormat-without-boundaries." It is entirely possible -- and NECESSARY -- to demonstrate unconditional love and forgiveness, within a framework of healthy boundaries.

Do you not love a child unconditionally, while at the same time not allowing them to use obscenity when speaking to you? Do you not love a spouse, while simultaneously not allowing them to berate you in front of another couple?

Those are just two silly examples, but I think this is where you're getting hung up. Us men have a REALLLLL hard time with the whole "schmuck factor" thing, and it really rears its head when there is infidelity involved. We don't like to be made a fool. But if your "standing" for your marriage is PART OF A PLAN -- YOUR plan -- then who's the schmuck here? You take a position of "Yes, I am, at the moment, deciding to stand for my marriage, even though my wife is having an affair and is refusing to admit it and work at the marriage, but I have made this choice to do this FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, and I will hold out as long as I can, all the while trying to lay out and enforce healthy boundaries for me and my children. My wife is an adult, I cannot control her, and I'm praying that she comes to her senses soon, before my love for her fully runs out, but I can hold on for "x" months and I will do so, to the best of my ability. This is MY decision, this is MY stand, and I am doing it with boundaries, legal/financial protections for me and my kids, and for a finite period (uncommunicated to spouse -- just tell her "I won't wait forever") of time."

My wife asked me both during -- and after -- her affair, why I was fighting for her. Why I hadn't kicked her out immediately. I told her:

- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";

- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;

- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;

- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;

- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.

When you lay out (and maybe even write down), what YOUR OWN reasons are, and give yourself an internal deadline (6 months, one year, whatever) . . . then I think, as a man, we can feel like WE are executing a plan, and that we're not being a "schmuck."

Does that make sense??

Puppy

[zew]

Yes, I've been doing a lot of thinking on this. "probably wise" isn't the strongest endorsement, but it might be as good as it can be.

What it comes down to is that right now, my W isn't really preventing me from doing anything that I would be doing if I were D'd or D'ing, except for having a R, which I morally couldn't, and which I'm in no mood for anyway.

I am able to go out, make new friends, enjoy myself. I wouldn't call it aggressively moving on, but I'm doing enough to keep me happy, and I'm making connections in case I ever have to ramp back into full independence mode.

In the meantime, I have full access to my kids every day.

And every day, W has to live her lie, look her kids in the eye, and convince herself that what she is doing is better than "staying in a bad marriage". And she may have little respect left for me anymore, but I can't imagine she's enjoying life, with a relationship she has to hide, and hanging on every little chirp of her cellphone.

If I pull the trigger, W will make me out to be the villain to everyone who will listen, and the kids. She may wish I would do that. Lets her off the hook. I'm going to leave that heavy lifting to her, for now, as long as it's to my advantage.

I think I can wait her out. She'll either take action, or break, or the clock will run out. I don't know that we'll even be able to have an R again - I have so little respect for what she's doing, or for her "besties" who condone it or help her cover it up, or for any man who would date a married woman. That's just my value system, and I have to keep that in check. I'll leave the future for the crystal ball though.

All I know is that my kids need me right now. D13 is at a formative time. If I D or separate (I don't think I see any benefit to separation, ever), that leaves them at least 50% of the time with W, who is as self-centered right now as I have ever seen anyone. I fear for D13 in that situation. And when I heard that MIL thought I should get the kids in the event of a D, because W won't be able to take care of them, well, wow.

And all the issues of doormat, plan B, self respect, etc., well, I'm still mulling those. A lot of it is just overcoming ego and pride. Pragmatism. An A makes you plan B - cope. Self respect is completely a function of me living within my own boundaries. Open marriage is still one I have to grapple with. I have some boundary setting to figure out for both me and the kids.

[Starsky309]

I like it.

[zew]

More words I never thought I'd string together: "I went to the district court clerk today to get my bail refunded."

W just called to say hello, and to ask how I was doing. We spoke pleasantly for a few minutes about absolutely nothing consequential. She didn't ask for anything; it was a totally superfluous call. She surprises me when she does that now. Every once in a while, her hostility drops.

The kids are going through withdrawal - 12 days without Minecraft

[pilot]

W just called to say hello, and to ask how I was doing. We spoke pleasantly for a few minutes about absolutely nothing consequential. She didn't ask for anything; it was a totally superfluous call. She surprises me when she does that now. Every once in a while, her hostility drops.:

This is a good sign, as you say, her hostility drops. Doesnt mean R, doesnt mean no D, but it is a good step in the right direction. Keep it up!

[zew]

D13 called me last night at 11 pm. I was asleep but she called again a minute later. She was sobbing. I thought the worst - she's at my MIL's house with W and S9 - what could be wrong? I was hoping she hadn't overheard W talking about anything.

After a few minutes of anxious questioning, I figured she had PMS weepies. This is all new this year, and she's still learning what to expect. Everyone else was asleep, and when she went to crawl in W's bed, W said it was too hot, and she should go back to her bed. Understandably, W has been a little short with the kids for the past 6 months.

So we talked and talked for 45 minutes, about anything and everything. And she is comfortable talking about everything. (as the father of a teenage girl, I hope to keep it that way) We talked about what she wants to do when she and I and S9 go on our vacation (without W) in a few weeks. I was happy to hear that D13 is now fully on board for our vacation even if W doesn't come with us.

You know what else? I didn't try to fix anything! I listened, and practiced validating! (yep, on D13) Because that's all she needed. By the end of the call she was happy, told me how much she loved me, and that she missed me and was looking forward to getting home.

D13 apologized for calling me so late and being sad, and I just told her that my whole job in life was to help her be happy and that she could always, always call me any time to talk about anything. It was a great call.

One thing I will take away from this whole DB experience is that I really did need to strengthen my relationship with my kids. That was my biggest 180 and I will say again that I do not regret any of that effort.

For anyone having trouble detaching, try turning your focus to relationships that you can work on. D or no D, I want D13 to know she's always got her father.

[Devaste]

Zee,

Wise words spoken by a wise man. I too agree with you that the silver lining has been my relationship with my children, sage words and very reflective.

Dev

[zew]

Thanks, Dev.

I don't know how wise I am though. Just trying to keep all the positive options open.

I've been keeping up to date with your sitch, and honestly, I don't know what to make of it. You seem to be pretty stable right now -- I'm not worried about you. W is the wildcard. Let's hope the A is truly over. That can only help.

[Devaste]

Thanks Zew,

I agree she's a wild card. Not sure how stable she really is at all. I've reread her email to me, and honestly, I think she needs to love herself before she's capable of anything else. But that's on her. Hope your upcoming holiday is great! I've got one planned in a few weeks myself.

I think your organized, serious, and you know what your doing. Keep it up.

Dev