She comes from a very bad family background where her dad left her mom, brother and her for OW when my wife was 10 and her brother 7. He left them while they were on vacation 1000 miles from home after his OW said she wanted him to come back. He left her mom, a boat, a camper and the kids and flew back home. When they got home he had moved to another state! He never paid ANY child support, drug the divorce out for ten years so he didn't have to give her ANY money at all. He put his business in his OW's name and all her mom got was the house.My wife had little contact with him growing up and always felt "uncomfortable" around him.
Wow, I just had my own epiphany when re-reading this.
So, I've been terrified of what's ahead...mainly for my kids. I had a broken home with a terrible divorce and, I guess, a part of me feels that because my children are going through this same experience...that means they have now been given a death sentence when it comes to THEIR OWN marriages and children. That, because I had this happen, this means that THEY too will, now that their father has abandoned them, have a similar experience and the cycle will continue.
This doesn't have to be the case though, does it?
In another sense, this experience could actually mean they learn how to relate to men in a different way and be even better mothers and wives...wives who have their own lives and don't feel dependent on their husbands for their happiness.
I didn't have that. I had a mom who was (still is) very addicted to men. I watched her jump from a broken marriage into another broken marriage with an even more outwardly abusive man.
I didn't see a parent rise above the situation she was given and work on herself. I saw the opposite. I saw a parent who was terrified of life and threw herself into another bad relationship to avoid the feelings of abandonment that came up.
I married Smokey after I was kicked out of my house because of my abusive stepdad. I retreated to a relationship at 19 and a man and I always expected Smokey to BE that parent/safety net for me. I literally, showed up on Smokey's doorstep and asked him to take me in. I DID THE SAME THING MY MOM DID.
I was afraid and sought safety in a relationship.
Today's ordeal could, as horrible as it is, be the very experience that gives our children successful families someday.
Wow. Sorry to hijack.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
Today's ordeal could, as horrible as it is, be the very experience that gives our children successful families someday.
As I read this, I'm reminded of two ideas 1) the sins of the father...to the fourth generation and 2) we all have choices.
The latter is important. We can't help what our parents did. We may have to pay for it in some way, but when you boil it down, that's life.
We, as humans, have choices. We get to make and be accountable for our choices. Sometimes that's scary and other times that's the most wonderful gift we can have. All about perspective I think.
There's a lot that goes on at the breakup of a marriage. Our own emotions, our ex spouses, our kids, our family, our friends, etc.. Part of the growth is learning handle all of that and take on no more than our part.
And it also highlights that forgiveness is for more than just those that have wronged us in this life
Heather, your mom did the best she could with what she knew. I don't know her background, but it's likely her mom did the best she could, and so on back in your family history. I have to wonder if she didn't worry about you in the same way. Maybe not outwardly...
Matt, you have a lot to think about as well. Heather's post helps to highlight some of the things you may be thinking of.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hi Heather, In my W's case, I knew all about her family history. The thing is she had the attitude that she would NEVER put her kids through the pain of D, would do whatever was necessary as D was for people who didn't want to work on their M. She told me that was what she had learned from her parents problems. I believed her as I thought that no one would want to put their own kids through the pain she had been put through. In the end, once her MLC took hold, she ended up doing EXACTLY the thing she always swore she never would. This is one of the reasons I can't understand how she changed her "feelings" so much so fast and at the same time, is taking advice from the very man who hurt her and her family so badly.
Her mothers experience did determine certain things about her life. Her mother quit college to get married and had limited skills to make a living after her father left. My W refused to get married until she finished her degree so she could be "independent" (something I think is part of her MLC now as she feels like she lost much of her independence during our M). She has trust issues not only when it comes to men but other women as well. Her mother didn't take the D well and never got on with her life. She hardly dated and is still single today. My W see's this as her mother, who tried as hard as she could to save her M and family, as the "loser" and her father who sails around the world in his yacht, as the "winner". Until we got married, my W ended EVERY relationship she ever had. She even said to me she always "won" and would break up as soon as things started to get serious.
My oldest D19 has said that the biggest mystery to her is that, growing up, her mother drilled in her that D was wrong and she would NEVER do it. My D knows that our M wasn't at all "bad". That her mom and I always had a loving R and knows that I would do whatever I could for her. We hardly fought, seldom disagreed. Her family would always say how much they knew I loved and cared for her. In the end this wasn't enough.
The thing you need to know is just how horrible a man her father really is. He was called a Sociopath by the family therapist they saw after the D when her brother started acting out. He manipulates everyone around him. I would call him the poster child for NPD. I really do believe the combination of her mothers not being able to move on with her life and her fathers total, uncaring, all about HIM lifestyle and his ability to give my W just enough to give her hope and make her feel like SHE wasn't "good enough" is what led to her MLC. She has spent her entire life trying to get him to care about her, to love her. He would give her just enough to hope and then, in front of others, tear her down. As a father myself of 2 girls, I can't even begin to understand how he can act this way. He seems to thrive on the feeling of power this gives him. I do know his childhood wasn't a good one with neither of his parents giving him much love.
In other words it's up to how you react to their father leaving as well as how he decides to interact with them that will determine much of how their future R's go. I really think that I must, for their sake more than my own, raise above the way that my W has decided to just throw away her family, to "find her joy" at the expense of her obligations as a W and mother. THIS is why, even if it didn't work, I am so upset that she refused to even try to work on the marriage. If anyone could see the harmful effects of D, it would be my W. It also shows me that for her to do this, there is MUCH more than simply her being "unhappy" going on. More than just a "bad marriage" or a change of her feelings. I really think she needs help. Help she refuses to get.
I really do have compassion for my W. It's hard sometimes as what she is doing is just so destructive to the things I love the most in this world. I see that she is lost, in pain but at the same time selfish and uncaring to the people that most care about her. You know as well as I do the feeling of betrayal that comes from our sitchs. I'm working on getting past that, which I know I must. It lies at the heart of my anger and for my sake as well as my D's, I must get past it.
It's now up to us to make certain that our kids learn the right lessons. We can't count on our S's to be able to even know right from wrong while in the state they are in. Fair, no. But life isn't fair (something I have taught my D's all their lives). I will tell you this....I think you are up to the task Heather. You are smart, caring and live your life in a way that your D's can be proud of. You can do this and maybe in the future their father will come out of his tunnel and be able to be a better father. Either way, you can show them the way that a strong, smart woman behaves and as far as I can tell you're doing a very good job so far.
Not read through your whole sitch but sounds like you have been on one heck of a ride......but going back to 25's post:
"So Matt, what are your 180s? Remember that they are not about getting your wife back. The 180s are for your own self improvement (although yes, they are dramatic by their very nature--the opposite of what you usually did/said--so they are more noticed by a WAS)- but the goal of the 180s is personal growth on YOUR end."
....and your response.....
"My biggest 180 is this, I don't care if I ever see my W again".
Is that ^^^ really your personal growth? Appreciate you were probably just venting but you need to lose the victim asap and the reading your W.....it will destroy you eventually (been there done that!) and does not sound like someone looking deep within to work on their own issues.
So what are your issues and 180's? I don't mean the quick wins like I never did the housework and now I do it, but the serious stuff, personality traits, flaws, the things that you really have to dig deep to discover and are often the hardest to change? How are you growing?
Don't want to ignore rky's post but had a weird day.... My W came over today to pick up things she needs for her new place. Turns out she also was planning on taking my D14 back with her but never told me until she was here. She said she thought my D would have said something to me. In the future she needs to let me know when she plans on taking her as I had plans to take D and a friend to movies tomorrow. Turns out she wanted her so she could take her to her company picnic tomorrow. Last year both D's refused to go with her when they found out I wasn't invited. She didn't realize just how angry they were that she had refused to do anything with them for the last 3 years and I know that upset her. My D said she doesn't "think" she will go again this year. We will see.
The day went well. I was upbeat and helpful. I put together all the cables she will need to hook up her TV, gave her a surge protector, helped her pack, etc. She thanked me several times for being so nice and helping her. She also tested me with trying to take certain things and telling me how she thought certain things "belong" to her. I just let it go. I wasn't angry and we talked. I told her about some of the things I've been doing and I swear she doesn't like my GAL activities. Why that is I can't understand as from the start of all this she kept telling me I needed to do more things outside the family away from home.
I'm proud of how I acted, my ability to not get angry and really just be nice but not too much so. I'm dropping the rope and letting her have what she wants. tonight is my d's first night at my W's new place. I hope she is comfortable but not too much so! I suppose I'll need to get over that soon.
W just called and asked for my help as the TV wasn't working. Turned out that it was just a loose cable but was glad I could help her and D out.
Things are moving forward with you and W going your separate ways for now. We shall see how things will play out in the next several months.
You wrote: THIS is why, even if it didn't work, I am so upset that she refused to even try to work on the marriage.
Buddy, you need to let go with being upset for it is NOT a reflection of you or the M. It is a reflection on W. In my case, Ms. Wonka came home one day with a new book called Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil really wanting to work on our M. My reaction? I refused to participate as I didn't think it was my problem. That is the MLC thought process. We are not the problem. We just want to get the f*ck away from you!!
It is not you.
And you mentioned that W appears not to like your GAL activities. Yep. In the MLCer mind, we are miserable which means, at the subconscious level, we want to bring you down to our level to make ourselves feel better. So when we see the LBS going out and GALing, it makes us curious and at the same time upset that you're having a grand time while we're stressed out and feeling depressed.
See the dichotomy in the MLCer? It is all on us. All of this comes down to perspective and perception.
Let. Your. Anger. Go.
W doesn't want to work on the M. So be it. Focus on you and the girls.
Listen to Wonka. Matt , my h said," I don't want this marriage to work." Then a couple of days later in heaving sobs h said, " I'm not doing any work. There is nothing wrong with me. I'll go to MC but I'm not going to do what she says and I'm not going to try to fix anything because it's all you." This was followed up with ," I have no idea how you can function being so rational." Alrighty then.
I hi-jacked and I'm sorry. My point is, I don't think most are capable of working on the m. It's just * easier * to get OW or OM and portray themselves the way they want to them. And that probably has some unfortunate consequences down the road. I know it sounds crazy, but your W probably doesn't have the capacity to work on the M. Let her go. She has to walk this path and all that goes with it.
Hang in there:)
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
This was followed up with ," I have no idea how you can function being so rational." Alrighty then.
This is exactly it. They are running on emotion - what they feel is their reality. no external checks. Frustrating to deal with until you realise that is the way it is.
Thanks Wonka, Georgia and Bea, Odd how now that she is gone, I'm more relaxed about the whole sitch. I just don't get how, even under the influence of MLC, they have turned their back on everything that they once truly believed. Having never had to deal with MLC, to me it must be confusing, that somewhere deep down, they MUST know what they are doing is just wrong. To watch a person live their life one way for so very long and now go to such lengths to twist things to justify doing the very things they once thought so wrong and be able to live with themselves. Are there any feelings of guilt or remorse at all? I don't think I could live myself having done what she is still doing. Having hurt someone who has been so much a part of my life and who I had, at least at one time loved.
I'm taking care of the things I know I must. I'm getting stronger I believe with each day. The anger is still there but not as strong and it's easier to get past. I guess I'll see as the legal process she started by filing for D gets going, if I can keep that anger from coming back. I am hopeful I can.
Thanks again for your help. I'm so glad that you were able to come out of your MLC, Wonka. And thanks for sharing with all of us how you thought and felt while in it's grip. It really is enlightening.
I am going to give you some food for thought from my own MLC experience in the hopes of giving you some insight.
Originally Posted By: Matt165
I just don't get how, even under the influence of MLC, they have turned their back on everything that they once tuly believed.
We are not turning our backs on everything we believed in....we are RUNNING AWAY from pressure. That is different. Turning our backs on something suggests that we are rational and logical in our decision-making process which is what a healthy person would do/normally does. When in MLC, all rational thought goes out of the window and we operate on our yucky emotions that we want to get rid of--FAST. Since we all live in a tangible world, in our minds, you as the 'tangible' evidence are the cause of our misery...we finger you as the "real" culprit thus laying all the blame at your feet.
Talk about real irony here, Matt.
Originally Posted By: Matt165
Are there any feelings of guilt or remorse at all?
For a former MLCer like me, who has come out of the fog and reintegrated oneself through a process of self-acceptance, there is guilt and remorse. At times, I do struggle with this as my empathy chip is now back in full-operating mode and it does hurt me knowing that I have wounded Ms. Wonka deeply with my MLC chit. This is where I have been working on making sincere amends with Ms. Wonka. I don't think our story is complete yet and is still being written as of today.
Just so you know that yes...some MLCers do feel guilt and remorse down the road. It is evidenced by Raine's and rH's threads. This seems to apply to kitty kitten MLCers...not Jekyll/Hyde MLCers like Bea's.
