negative voice creeping in

[watto14]

Thanks for recommendations db2013, I think I read the original article but definitely worth a re read.:)
Ben, I get what your saying, I have had serious jealousy issues over the past few years, after the first time h cheated, I told him and myself that I was over it, but then in truth I wasn't, I punished for the next 5 years, and in between that his father passed away very suddenly, we had twins, the usual roller coaster, he's 7 yrs younger than me and I think that plays a part too, we got together when he was 22 and maybe that's part of it too, he says he still loves me but there's nothing else there. .. sorry for the scattered reply

[Ben2010]

How often does that cheating get brought up in arguments or conversations with you all?

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks for recommendations db2013, I think I read the original article but definitely worth a re read.:)
Ben, I get what your saying, I have had serious jealousy issues over the past few years,

do you ever wonder if the jealousy played a role BEFORE he had an affair? I ask this b/c one pattern I've seen quite a lot in life and here, is how some partners bring about the very thing they fear the most.

EXAMPLE: Imagine a couple that has a possessive controlling guy in it. He starts fearing that he's losing his w's interest so he gets all smothering on her,

and all she wants is some space and freedom to THINK and maybe make a choice of her own now and then (instead of having to defend every choice she makes...)

and then the jealous insecure guy REALLY gets going with his fears b/c she has distanced herself a bit, and he finally pushes her into the arms of OM for at least an EA...which makes him go all Stalker on her and then she has a PA with OM...

and the guy then yells "SEE? I KNEW you'd cheat! I was right!"

But in fact it's quite possible if he'd been more secure in the first place, LESS controlling, he would have held her interest and she'd never have wandered...

I know in some cases it has happened that way, and it's ironic b/c it really means that we can bring about or cause to happen, the very thing we most want NOT to happen.



after the first time h cheated, I told him and myself that I was over it, but then in truth I wasn't, I punished for the next 5 years,

As I posted elsewhere, I truly believe that this^^ is the worst choice to make. To stay married and stay miserable.

If you cannot forgive, you must let him go.

It's not fair to either of you to hold the sword of Damacles over his head forever, to make him climb Mt Everest and STILL not be enough to trust...or to throw it in his face every fight you have or each time he is late from work...

I know for a fact that there are couples who really do forgive and move forward. Maybe you are not one of them.

Forgiveness is a learned skill. Many of us never saw it growing up, so we have to go acquire it as a life tool/skill.

I don't know any long term marriage that has lasted, without chunks of forgiving.

How was forgiveness modeled for you in your childhood?

What have you done to learn how to forgive?


and in between that his father passed away very suddenly, we had twins, the usual roller coaster, he's 7 yrs younger than me and I think that plays a part too,

well, the age difference is only a factor to you, probably. But that plays on your insecurities and fears--- and then---= your resentment and ---- then more negative behaviors from you ----, which pushes him away more...

AND you have twins, which is hard on any couple b/c it's twice the work and effort (and joy too, but there is something to be said for spreading the births out a bit)...

--- and he had a death in his family. That is a lot for any couple, even if they are "normal life events", putting them together AND THEN if you add in your jealousy and all the punishments---, ...

not a recipe for success.

What would you do now, if you had it all to do over again??


we got together when he was 22 and maybe that's part of it too, he says he still loves me but there's nothing else there. .. sorry for the scattered reply

[watto14]

Ben, it doesn't got bought up outright, before we were s, I'd ring constantly, ask where he was, who he was with, what ime would he be home, and the do the "yeah right" when he told me, so at that point I never really believed him, so I tthink he thought "oh well she's not going to believe me anyway so I may as well do whatever"
25 mac, I have had jealousy issues for a very long time, more to do with abandonment form my father, mother was always busy so I always felt like I was left behind, it's only really recently with counseling that I've been able to realise it wasn't my fault the way my parents behaved (one of the reasons I'm striving to rebuild my m, I want the family unit to be whole for our boys) I am well aware of the damage I caused in our m, my reactions to his actions, the whole vicious cycle, and that I lived my life through h, these are the habits/things I am trying to change

[25yearsmlc]

How often does that cheating get brought up in arguments or conversations with you all?

If you are to stay married, you never bring it up again. NEVER in an argument.

It's only discussed as something to learn from and forgive, or you split up.

Here is where I learned that...

Growing up we lived near a military family and the "Colonel" was a bit of a handsome hero in our eyes, very fun and kind and also had been a POW in Vietnam.

He and his wife had 5 kids...some years earlier before we met them, the Colonel had also had an affair.

How did I, a 17 y/o know this? Well, we all knew b/c somehow the Colonels' wife, let us know, as well as their children.

She'd change topics if we asked the Colonel about his years as a POW> and I used to think she was protecting him from nightmarish memories...but then I'd notice the snide remarks or the undermining...she really truly did not want us to see him as a hero at all...

and she deeply resented the past, even though he no longer was having an A...

30+ years later, only one of their kids is married and the others all divorced, at least twice...

INSTEAD the wife could have done the work it takes to forgive (or divorce)

and left a legacy of commitment, forgiveness and redemption and maybe a great marriage could have been resurrected (yes there are religious allegories here)

but instead, she taught them to stay married AND stay miserable

and they each distrusted their spouse or cheated on them (before they became the victim of adultery they became the adulterer)

and so I learned then, that if I ever had to forgive something difficult, I would do whatever it takes OR I would let it go.

If you do stay married after an affair it's only b/c you believe you BOTH want the marriage to work. That requires forgiveness and some work on the cheater's part to regain trust.

But for sure the 2 essentials are that, IF YOU RECONCILE

you cannot bring an A up in an argument, and you cannot hold it over their heads. Ever...

The wayward spouse Needs to know that they are safe in their efforts to regain trust and that this won't be thrown in their face or have it hanging over them forever...that they will be allowed to get past it (or why bother trying?)

, or they will not want to try and do so much rebuilding - just to have their spouse try and shame them.

Someone here said she punished her h over several years...and now he's had another A. Yikes.

All I can tell you is this...Most marriage vows say "From this day forward" and I think that is brilliant and useful.

Take those words literally and stop bringing up the past. You do not have to agree on the past or what happened or why...

but you DO have to agree on the future and how to restore and nurture the relationship.

Make sense?

[watto14]

25mlc, I agree with everything you've just said, that's exactly what happened, so I guess that's why I'm finally listening to him when he says to let him go, let him live the life he wants at this point, however, this should go both ways, don't ring me to see how I am, don't do things for me, don't let me rely on you been around, because what happens when he's not??...

[Ben2010]

I think that if you can find a way to "actually" forgive here like 25 is saying, then you might have a chance to make this work. There is no way it will work if you dont though. That means once you forgive him for it, you never bring it up again, at least not in an argument to throw in his face. Its also something that you need to do for yourself to heal. Im sure you honestly think that sometimes when he is out that he is with someone else. I would find some sort of resource that will help you with this. I know in my anger management, it deals with forgiveness alot. I dunno just a thought.

[watto14]

I haven't brought up the past a, since the s, I can still remember the night I finally let go, it would have been a week after we first s, and I woke up at 3 in the morning, gasping for air, and all of a sudden it was like, it's gone, the anger, bitterness, betrayal..because look where it got me? To this point where our m is over. And yes because I did punish my H, he did have another a last year, yep that stung, but he did agree to Mc and we went twice, he got what the c was saying and even at that point I couldn't let go, couldn't forgive at that point, silly the things you realise in hindsight. I think that's when he really gave up, I can remember him standing in the doorway saying we're never going to get over this are we?"

[Ben2010]

That doesnt mean its over. You made some mistakes but now you understand where you went wrong. You cant just come right out and say it now that you have forgiven him. That will look like pursuing and that you are very desperate. Youre going to have to show him through loving actions when you get the chance. Has he shown real remorse for the A's or no?

[Eatsma]

(Sigh)

I can't do anything about the past, except learn from it.

For sure I never thought my H would cheat on me. He was as honest as the days are long. He wouldn't say he had a headache to get out of going to a party that he didn't want to go to. I thought he would stay true blue to me and our vows.

Which is why once when he talked about wishing he'd had some variety before we got married, I threw over my shoulder, "Oh...well, one day you'll probably just have an affair." Haha - I'm so funny and so secure. Lalalala....What was the Saturday Night Live skit? Jane, you ignorant, sl....

He took that as permission. He's been hanging that over my head a little bit.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID....the guy is my friend. I've been watching him try to make sense of this for months. He is convinced they are going to be lifetime friends. He is devastated that he has taken away our perfect marriage from me (he sent me some texts that he and OW exchanged on this subject after one of our discussions). At one point I tried to explain to him that friends do not put their friends' marriages in jeopardy. Friends do not have to lie to other friends and family about their relationships. Friends help friends become the best version of themselves...

He chewed on that.

He also has repeatedly told me that I am his best friend.

So...I'm watching this man struggle. He wants to stay married to me. He wants a future with me and our children (he brings it up ALL THE TIME). BUT, he wants to have this little thing on the side. And he knows its an addiction. He tried to stop it for several weeks by not traveling to her city, but now he's seen her again...and I know that it's just going to get started anew.

For now, I'm going to try the ignore strategy. She's made some comments recently that make me hope that things are crumbling a little bit (according to him...and I know--I can't believe any of what he says..). So - let's try ignore and see what happens. I've been doing this for almost 8 months, so I'm not sure what I have to lose by trying it.

The thought that I had this week that made me feel almost sorry for them is that their relationship really is based entirely on lies to everyone around them. They work together, so they lie to all of their co-workers. They're both married, so they lie to their spouses. She claims that her mother is her best friend (and her mother has cancer), but I'd be willing to bet that her mother doesn't know about this relationship. So - the only people that they can be "honest" with is each other....And are they even being honest with one another? Only they know.

It's kind of pathetic, actually.

Anyway - I don't *think* I'll hold this over H's head when all is said and done. Am I mad? Yes. Am I embarrassed and hurt? I am. Do I think that MLC has made him lose his mind? I do. He is definitely not the man I married. Do I hope that when we get through this that I will have a man who recognizes that the woman that he's called his best friend for over 21 years was really and truly his best friend through some dark times. I hope so!