Wife in MLC and getting ready to leave #6

[Georgiabelle]

Hi Matt,

I know it's difficult when they are physically gone. I'm also sorry about the dog. I'm insane about my 11 yr old big bear mutt and know how much their companionship means.

I think once she's physically gone, you will begin to process things differently. I'm certainly not saying it will be easy, although I think you will be able to step back and realize how much calmer and more at peace you feel. In regards to your Ds, well there is no other way to say it than it s?cks. However , be a role model for them. Remind them how much you love them and live your life with honesty and integrity. They will see it and they are watching you.

You are starting a new chapter. It may not have been a chapter you chose for yourself, however it can be a great story. You can do this!

[LoisB]

She may very likely stay gone, and I think you should make her stay gone and count yourself lucky when its all said and done. I know that's counter to the board's mission. I do. But unless she changes in a massive way, you were bound to a woman that was going to make your life HE**.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I agree with AJ. I'm in the same cesspool when it comes to a spouse requiring a major and unlikely OVERHAUL.

Life can be good again. Really.

Recovery takes time. I'm nearly 2.5 years into this journey. And, I'd be lying by saying this easy, but I'm finding my way. I'm seeing the different blessings that came with my H leaving. He is a very broken person.

There were good times in our marriage, but he was always broken. His issues were always just under the surface, brewing. And, while living together, I was always dealing with the fear of his leaving.

For years, I prayed for help in becoming financially independent. I prayed for help in becoming this woman I am now forced to become.

God answered my prayers and has more faith in me than I have had in myself. He just went about answering my prayers in a way that I didn't expect. I'm not sure I could have become the person I'm meant to be within my marriage...the mother I'm meant to be. My spouse's leaving may turn out to be the nicest thing he ever did for me.

[Matt165]

Thanks GB and Lois,
You are so right about being with someone who is broken. My W has had issues from the start but like all us romantics, I believed that love could conquer all. We really were in love. She was different than any other woman I had ever been with. Now, I see that that person is gone. She doesn't even look the same! She see's old pics of herself and she says how awful she looked back then (before laser eye surgery and losing weight and changing her hair color, etc.) and I think how much more beautiful she was back then! She has become hard, brittle and selfish.

I have much to offer someone. I would have moved heaven and earth for her and did on occasion. I tried to help her get whatever it was she wanted in her life starting with helping her finish college before we even got married. Now she says she just can't find her joy with me part of her life. It just makes no sense at all. I've been thinking about our past and I have seen her lose every friend she has ever had. My W would lose interest or something would happen and she felt slighted and just stop caring. They would try and contact her, make an effort but my W would just cut them out of her life. Her friends now all work with her so she can't cut them out of her life. If she were to stop working with them, I have no doubt that in short order they would also disappear from her life as well.

I need to stop all thoughts of her or my M. Time to think about what is best for me which isn't as easy as it sounds when I have been thinking of someone else's needs before my own for so very long. This is so much harder than I ever thought it would be but like GB said, I didn't choose to be in the place I am but that doesn't change the fact that I am here. Time to get to work making my life the best it can be!

Thanks ladies. I'm grateful for all your help!

[25yearsmlc]

Matt, first off, I'm glad to hear business is picking up. GOOD.

Now, to repeat myself would be pointless, right? But here's the thing; you keep your focus on her way way too much. This actually is NOT new to you. So we'll try a new approach.

In your first post here, you said all was well, (or well enough) in the marriage until her father came back into her life upon his father's death. But later and herein, you say she was damaged from the start. Okay well, a lot of this isn't important now except for choices you made then, that I assume you would not make now.

But let's say your original post was fair & accurate; that the marriage had been good to very good, once upon a time.

If that is true, then I know 2 things:
1) you have had 7 years of dealing with someone who is emotionally crippled and struggling mightily to right the wrongs in HER childhood... which you cannot control... and;

2) once upon a time, the marriage was decent or good or very good.

IF #2 is true, then IN TIME, she'll recall those good memories and times. But How?
Not by you pointing them out!

But by her not having them covered up with the "marital revisions" that are mostly (not always but mostly) created when the WAS feels defensive and or, needs to justify her choices.

Like when YOU challenge her choices...she then is forced to defend them, instead of really examining those choices.

If she is alone now in her apartment, she will have the time and space to reflect. Don't begrudge her that. She's damaged goods.

Based on my own experience when h left for the "LAST FRONTIER/GOLD RUSH" (his actual words) of Alaska...where I guess it's so cold he would not age(??) I just did what my DB coach said (God bless her!) which was to CONTRAST the life my h was creating (which I had no insight into or control over)

with the life here, which was figuratively and literally warm, bright, FUN and loving. That's what I created for my children and myself and it was ALL under MY control...and it did contrast mightily with what h "discovered", which was that without his family, living up there sukked...

release your wife to her task and pray her father does not do too much more damage to her than he already has. But do release her.

Now, let's look at how much of your posts are still all about your wife and THEN lets' get back to you.

Thanks GB and Lois,
You are so right about being with someone who is broken. My W has had issues from the start but like all us romantics, I believed that love could conquer all. We really were in love. She was different than any other woman I had ever been with. Now, I see that that person is gone. She doesn't even look the same! She see's old pics of herself and she says how awful she looked back then (before laser eye surgery and losing weight and changing her hair color, etc.) and I think how much more beautiful she was back then! She has become hard, brittle and selfish.

No more of this^^, okay? It's all your version of HER history anyhow. Plus, we all change and evolve, ebb and flow. All that matters is now and "From this day forward". Let go of the past or your version of it. It's truly not relevant now. And it keeps YOU STUCK...only you can get yourself unstuck.


I have much to offer someone.


THIS^^^ matters...the rest of the paragraph goes back to HER and the HERSTORY...


I would have moved heaven and earth for her and did on occasion. I tried to help her get whatever it was she wanted in her life starting with helping her finish college before we even got married.

Ahem, let go of the past. It's your version anyhow. Remember that in HER version of the marital history, you have held her back, you have been critical and controlling...so that's why I tell everyone, and I mean, everyone, to lose the scorecard. Those never help a marriage and they are not the same for the other person. So they're just not relevant to solving todays' problems and they tend to worsen our attitudes toward each person b/c we have spent so much time making ourselves the "winner" in the contest, which actually means we make ourselves the victims...
so again, the history is NOT relevant to today.

If you were a good h to her, She WILL remember that eventually. Maybe not in time for you, but that's not within your control anyhow. And if she never recalls it that way, then you have something to ponder there....

for now and from this day forward, make your life about you and your d's, and not about how victimized you guys are. There is a way to do this.


Now she says she just can't find her joy with me part of her life. It just makes no sense at all. I've been thinking about our past and I have seen her lose every friend she has ever had. My W would lose interest or something would happen and she felt slighted and just stop caring. They would try and contact her, make an effort but my W would just cut them out of her life. Her friends now all work with her so she can't cut them out of her life. If she were to stop working with them, I have no doubt that in short order they would also disappear from her life as well.


I need to stop all thoughts of her or my M.

YES...(APPLAUSE APPLAUSE)


Time to think about what is best for me which isn't as easy as it sounds when I have been thinking of someone else's needs before my own for so very long.


Matt, as noble as you make yourself out to be, just DO IT already. Make your life and your d's your priority, and not fixing or blaming your wife. NO one said it was "easy" but it's also not complicated. Remember, we all had to do this too.

Sure, maybe you should have worked on yourself long before now, but we all know it is easier to make our problems pretty much all about our spouse's choices.

It frees us from looking at our own. I could blame my h's unrelenting work schedule or all the nights he was gone and I was a single parent, usually working full time...

but every step of the way, I/you made a choice. You could avoid your own personal work (b/c you say you just wanted to help your wife or support her or compensate for what she was not doing, etc)....UNTIL your job stopped. Your wife supported your choice to join the start up. I know she then left. I know.

But you have to stop seeing her in every negative light at every turn. It helps no one.

I did the same thing for a long time. Now I don't even read my old posts b/c all I see is me blaming my h and writing our whole marital history of how I put him thru med school and I had our children --pregnancy & giving birth are not small things--all while I also worked full time, he was always on call at night, and blah blah blah.

While I pretended that "venting" was helpful to me, it usually (3/4 of the time??) made me spiral negatively downwards. It mostly kept me stuck.

Get unstuck Matt. It'll do wonders for your PMA and for your daughters,

and who knows, maybe if your wife sees you as a happy UNbitter man, she'll feel less pressed to keep defending herself.

The minute she can stop defending herself, is the minute she might start looking at herself...same goes for her dad. The minute she can stop defending HIM, the sooner she'll see him for who he is today.

Not the missing daddy from childhood who could do no wrong while present, & fix all problems just by coming home... but a very disturbed man, with a wildly inappropriate sense of fatherhood and reconciliation.

This is so much harder than I ever thought it would be but like GB said, I didn't choose to be in the place I am but that doesn't change the fact that I am here. Time to get to work making my life the best it can be!

Thanks ladies. I'm grateful for all your help!

So Matt, what are your 180s? Remember that they are not about getting your wife back. The 180s are for your own self improvement (although yes, they are dramatic by their very nature--the opposite of what you usually did/said--so they are more noticed by a WAS)- but the goal of the 180s is personal growth on YOUR end.

Can you name 2 specific ones? Not about how you interact with your w, but in your life...your behaviors or traits you want to work on.

and as for GAL, I cannot recall, what are some of the GAL you are doing?

I/we hammer the GAL thing here for one simple reason. It works.

[TSquared2]

While I pretended that "venting" was helpful to me, it usually (3/4 of the time??) made me spiral negatively downwards. It mostly kept me stuck.

Same with me Matt.

[Matt165]

Hi 25 and T2,
Just recall that post was made the night my W left for good. Was feeling a bit .....melancholy? The point is I don't point any of these things out to my W. I leave her alone in her own head and haven't said a word since she left (except when she texted me to re-release her phone number as the 14 days expired before she went to get her own account). I never bring up R issues, I leave that to her.

Our marriage was very good until her grandfather died and her father came to her and told her that he wanted to make up for all the bad he had ever done and be a good father. Only he couldn't accept her life as she was 'wasting" it on being a wife and mother. HE made her choose between her M and family or HIM, not me. Just a few months later she was so depressed she couldn't get out of bed. That lasted for 3 years. The kicker came when he was diagnosed with cancer and my W felt like she was running out of time for her to have a chance to make up with him, have him in her life. That began his wanting her to go away with him and his new W, just her, not me or her kids, for a couple months at a time! He would tell her what's wrong with that. I can take care of the kids. Only a "bad" husband wouldn't want her to go! He knew exactly what he was doing and would voice how she was meant to do more than be a wife and what a waste her life was. Add in some MLC and this is what you get.

180's? I couldn't do more as my life is totally changed. I need to make my life work and I have been doing nothing if not changing everything. I go out with new groups of people and am having fun. On Saturday I have a night tubing event planned, the same day my W wants to come over and "clean out the cabinets" so she can take what she wants. Friday night I have another night planned. Now that she is gone and I feel able to talk to other people about what is happening, I have gotten in touch with old friends and have received offers to help if I can find a way to get my D14 into private school. I went out with my D and her friends and their parents last Saturday. Had a blast and it's something my W would NEVER do.

I knew my W was 'damaged" by her childhood before I married her. She has trust issues and acted out at times from the start. She had to test me. See if I would just up and go if things weren't perfect. I was good for her. My family was good for her as she saw people who have been together for years and always worked out their problems, never "ran". When she went into MLC she just forced my family out of her life, always having a reason they couldn't visit. Finding flaws or a way to feel "slighted" by them. She has told me that she felt I didn't think she was "enough" for me and for the life of me can't understand where that came from.

For 25 years I watched as her father would ignore her or tell her how "disappointed" he was in her because she didn't do what HE wanted her to. Now that she is doing what HE thinks she should he calls and texts her several times a day. She now has what she always wanted...her dad in her life, backing her choices (as long as they are the ones HE thinks she should be making). Now she gets what she said she wants. I will let her be. Let her experience what being on her own, in control of every part of her life means. In the meantime I will move ahead in my life.

I'm doing well. The tension at home is so much lower. I'm still a bit worried about what my W will want in the D settlement. How she will react if my D14 says she wants to live with me most of the time. How she will react when I don't try and 'force' my D to do what SHE wants her to. I am coming up with what I expect in the settlement and how I will react if my W disagrees. How I can try and set things up in a way that is best for my D14, not me or her mom. All things that must be worked out and soon, none of which have any thoughts of my W doing anything but what she is now. She is gone and that's the reality of it. All I can do now is live MY life the way I see fit.

Thanks 25 and T2, things are going to work out. Maybe not the way I had hoped but they will.

[cat04]

Matt,

Yet another rewrite of how this came to be.

Maybe you need to keep reliving it, IDK.

Good on the GAL. However they aren't necessarily 180's.

180 tend to be more personal types of changes.

What sort of 180's have you made?

[Matt165]

No cat,
25 asked and I answered. Nothing more. I'm fine, better than I've been in a long time. Right now I'm concerned with how my W called our D for the first time since she left last night and is trying to bribe and manipulate her into wanting to stay with her. Of course it took 3 days before she bothered to call. I'm more concerned with making enough on my own to send my D to private school since her mother (who makes a lot more than me) refuses to help pay. Wondering how much of my limited funds I'm going to need to replace all the stuff my W seems to think belongs to her from soap dispensers to mesuring cups. How to afford health insurence. Buy food, new shoes, new glasses all stuff I didn't buy before my W left because money was tight while she spent like a drunken sailor.

My biggest 180 is this, I don't care if I ever see my W again. She has through her insanity destroyed everything I worked for for 20 years. She refused to make any effort in her marriage and now wants to blame me for every ill that has ever befallen her so why would I want her back in my life? If not for the kids I probably would have given up long ago. I'm not sure about that but it feels that way now. I don't wish her to fail or have a bad life, be unhappy or anything like that. But right now I really don't think I want her in my life or my D's lives. She is not a very good mother, at least since the MLC started and never bothered to do things with the kids but now insists that she must have 50% custody knowing that she won't be around much. Why? I really believe it's because she feels guilty about what she has done. She doesn't want to be seen as a bad mother. I know it isn't because she has D's best interests at heart because she doesn't care about anyone but herself and her father.

Her not being here and moving forward like she has cleared my head a lot. I'm now at a point where I should have been a long time ago. If this is what she wants that's what she will get. I can't see how she will ever come out of this. Her father, her new mentor for how to live her life, never came out of his MLC and I doubt she ever will either. If it makes her "happy" to blame me for her own actions and bad feelings so be it. I know the truth and the truth is she had in me someone who really had her best interests at heart. Who tried to be a good husband and friend. Who put her wants and needs ahead of my own for most of our marriage. If she can't see that or if that wasnt good enough for her than let her go and see if she can find someone better. Her values no longer are close to mine. What's important to me is meaningless to her. She made the ultimate 180 the day she decided I and her marriage was the cause of her being unhappy. Let her see just how happy being alone really is.

This is how I see things. I'm sure she see's things differently. But with her that's bound to change soon as she can't seem to have a single coherent thought that lasts more than a week. I need to get off the crazy band wagon and at least while she's here with me, give my D some stibility in her life as my W's actions have turned her world upside down.

[AJM]

As you're working through this Matt, the danger is that you follow the same pattern she may have into the negative thinking abyss. Remember I told you I could have written a story so similar to yours we could have been confused for twins separated at birth? I suspect I have written those words, in that order at one point or another.

A few comments to help. Perhaps not today, but at some point Matt.

She refused to make any effort in her marriage and now wants to blame me for every ill that has ever befallen her so why would I want her back in my life? If not for the kids I probably would have given up long ago. I'm not sure about that but it feels that way now.

You are aware that may not be true. That self-awareness is a good thing Matt. You'll realize eventually she made her own choices regardless of the influence she chose to accept. She made her choices. She did. Not you. Not her dad. Not her mom. Not anyone else. That's important for later, Matt.

I don't wish her to fail or have a bad life, be unhappy or anything like that. But right now I really don't think I want her in my life or my D's lives.

Wait, she hurts you, blames you, etc and you don't like that??? Gosh, that's hard to understand Matt. The human mind is a funny thing. It follows it's thoughts. And when it's hurt, it tries really hard to protect itself from further harm. We're wired that way. We are by nature selfish, self-preserving beings. Civilization gives us the hope that we can be more than that. But really, when you boil it down, we are what we are right?

Just because you didn't break her, doesn't mean she doesn't view you as a threat. Just because you don't think you're a threat, doesn't mean she doesn't see you that way. See seems to right? If you didn't cause it, it's next to impossible to know what it is. Hence you cannot solve it although it may be that you tried for years. You may get outward glimpses of plausible causes, Matt. But you'll never know what really is the problem beyond her being human.

She is not a very good mother, at least since the MLC started and never bothered to do things with the kids but now insists that she must have 50% custody knowing that she won't be around much. Why? I really believe it's because she feels guilty about what she has done. She doesn't want to be seen as a bad mother. I know it isn't because she has D's best interests at heart because she doesn't care about anyone but herself and her father.

You're closest to the situation Matt. You may be right. But let's take her out of the picture for a moment and think about somebody else.

Your daughters.

I had those exact same thoughts (except it was OM vs. Dad) for my ex. I see signs I was correct. Know what though? When my ex left, she had already left the kids and me at least once. She had questionable parenting judgment for being left around a 10 year old. She may have developed a drinking problem, was sleeping around, staying out to all hours of the night etc.

But imagine for a moment what it would be like for your D's if they have to choose between mom or dad. What would it be like if they don't have a mom who wants them in their life, for any reason? Nutty, crazy, heroine, or whatever she really is, do your D's really deserve to be without their mom? Is she dangerous to them or is it just your emotions and difference of what a "good" parent should be that are driving that? Something to think about. You'll need to know later, trust me.

If she doesn't want anything to do with her kids, you'll know for sure soon enough. Believe me, it won't take long for your D's to voice what they see. They will need to make some choices as well though. They know you love them. They know their mom loves them, but they aren't sure what she is doing or if they like the way she loves them.

Something to think about. There's always more, but I wanted to be sure to challenge some of that thinking early on. It's important for you to challenge and not fall down that same rabbit hole she did. Negative thinking is a tough one to overcome. It's how you end up re-writing your history

AJ

[LoisB]

Matt,

I hear a lot of fear. In my experience, when men get scared...they get angry. I could be wrong, but that's what I hear. I hear fear about what's ahead for you and your girls.

She comes from a very bad family background where her dad left her mom, brother and her for OW when my wife was 10 and her brother 7. He left them while they were on vacation 1000 miles from home after his OW said she wanted him to come back. He left her mom, a boat, a camper and the kids and flew back home. When they got home he had moved to another state! He never paid ANY child support, drug the divorce out for ten years so he didn't have to give her ANY money at all. He put his business in his OW's name and all her mom got was the house.My wife had little contact with him growing up and always felt "uncomfortable" around him.

You wrote this in your first post. Expecting this woman, from the background you describe, to act rationally and as a "good mother" is really unrealistic. She is very broken Matt.

I also hear in your posts a man who still loves his wife and wishes she would "snap outta it" for everyone's sake.

If she did, she could save a lot pain for you and your daughters. I can relate to this.

So, how do we rise above their brokenness and become the best people/parents we can in spite of insanity? How do WE reclaim our Power for our children?

Children need stability to thrive. And, WE need to provide this stability since they can't expect it from the other parent right now.

I have a lot of fear about what my H will pull next and how this will impact the beginnings of calm the girls and I have created in our lives. I don't want to live in fear. I can't control what he does or doesn't do.

He has been crazy a long time...so has your wife. I see a similarity in both our situations in that both our spouses gave us ample warning of what was ahead. I dug my head in the sand hoping he would snap outta it. He hasn't. I'm still waiting and I need to stop for my own sake.

The world is an imperfect place. Our children will have to deal with injustice as they move through life. Sadly, we can't protect them from ALL of life's unfairness.

I suggest being the best dad you can right now...I know you are trying. Allow your D to see you rise above the fray. Even if she chooses to move in with your W, she can always change her mind. Allow your D to figure this one out. Children will always gravitate toward the healthier situation.

Your D will be ok, no matter what, if you get yourself OK. And, I think you are. Moving forward is a daunting task...not to be done in a day...it's a process.

At the beginning of most A.A. meetings, there is a prayer said for the "Alcoholic still suffering." That's how I see my H today. He is out there still suffering...he hasn't, can't, won't, refuses to, is unable to "get it"...by "it" I mean what's important in life. Let's pray (for our kids and our spouses) but honor their own process through all of this. My H's way isn't MY way, but it's his to choose.