First post, completely lost

[pilot]

This will be a rollercoaster. You will have good days and bad days. You will start to make progress and then screw up and backslide. Dont worry about the bad days. Focus on the good days and what made them good. While you will make mistakes along the way, most mistakes are not catastrophic and cannot be remedied later on. When you feel the rush of emotions coming on, go somewhere private and let them out. Never let your H see you cry or be upset anymore. It is SO VERY important for him to see this change in you. He needs to notice you are not crying over him anymore, and in fact, you are happy and upbeat about your future. The sooner he realizes you are no longer permanently available to him, the sooner he will move closer to you.

Best of luck to you and remember to post here often. Get involved in other people's posts because that way they see you and go check your story out. Who knows, they may have something beneficial to contribute.

[Old Dog]

Another newcomer here watto14: sorry to see you here, but you'll find people ready and willing to help you.

I find listening to a podcast about 'mindfulness' helps me when I'm feeling really low. It's about living in the present. I only found it since the bomb: just looking around on iTunes I downloaded a podcast by Oli Doyle. Each episode is about 10 minutes long and calms me down I can tell you.

[watto14]

thanks odsnt, I did actually look up Oli doyle, nice to hear a fellow aussie accent!

today has been a calm day for me, I don't know exactly why, but I was talking to my one good friend who is supporting me through this, she is brilliant, there truly is no judgement from her about my decision to save my m, she was actually teaching me 180's before I even knew what they were.
I haven't seen my h since last night when I went to pick up the boys to bring them home from his place.
I really expected to not hear from him for the next couple of days, then this morning he rang up to tell me that he'd organised to take next Wednesday off to spend it with us(id palnned on taking them to an indoor playground for the day)
this is afirst on a few levels, 1) he never takes days off to spend with the kids on their bdays 2) he knows I was taking the day off to be with them 3) to ring me up and tell me when he could of sent a text....
then he asked how my day was going, I said busy, lighthearted voice, and said i'd better go.
thwn this afternoon he rings again to tell me that our eldest son would be finishing school early due to school hols starting, ireplied that I knew and I planned to be there, again ,this would have been something that he could have texted.

so am I missing something here, but two nights ago, he tells me that he is truly done, that I have to let him go, other thsn cry(and he did too) I told him Id respect his decision, that we have to co parent together etc, and now he is ringing about mundane things, and showing involvement???
maybe the reason for the calm is knowing that our m as it was is truly over(I have actually taken off my wedding rings for the first time yesterday-feels very weird)and now we can begin to "friend" each other, a real true beginning??
I have been asked a couple of times today if I think he is seeing ow, and honestly, I don't know and for the first time, I can say, I have no control over what he does, I do know that its his life, and his choices, and he needs to work his sh*t just like I do. on a brighter note, I have signed myself up for pole dancing classes, a bit of core strength never hurt anyone lol, and beginner yoga, my mind races constantly so it'll be good for me.

[Ggrass]

There are a few of us from au here. Me and Barry.

[watto14]

That's a great thing to know grass, it's silly buts it nice to think someone out there in same country is going through the same dilemma

[pilot]

watto,

Try not to read anything into his calling when he could be texting because there are a million reasons why and you just do not know. Take it for what it is, he is making contact with you. I am happy you have found that calm. I have found it as well. Many posters here will point to success stories of people who have truly let go of their spouse. Once the spouse realizes this, they begin to move back towards you. Be careful and do not jump the gun because you will scare them off if you seem too eager. Patience. I am in the same spot where after a long period of dark, my W is making a ton of overtures and communicating. It is easy to want to figure it out, but best remove it from your mind.

Good luck!

[watto14]

Thanks pilot, I know I shouldn't read in to anything, just thinking out loud, trying to quell the very loud negative voice I no my head...The one that woke me up at 3 am this morning, reminding me of where my m is right now, sigh....

[25yearsmlc]

thank you oad, thank you for responding, please excuse me for sounding desperate, but is there any hope at all?

Well You do sound desperate and you should not. First, it undermines your self esteem and frankly, it's a turn off. So it actually hurts your cause.
Second, of course there is hope.

My h and I sep for almost two YEARS...think big picture long term here...plus there are couples who divorce and later, remarry their former spouses so yes, it happens.

And finally, instead of asking for a guarantee about him returning, figure out where YOU went wrong and what your role was in the affair. That will "guarantee" that you become more like the woman he fell in love with... and THEN once you deal with that and make the changes you need to make (YOU admit you were the jealous insecure type so I think that was part of it and he doesn't need to tell you that. You know it.

BTW< why'd your first m end? Think about that. Was your h also previously married and if so, why did his first m end?

Are there other obvious things he may not want to tell you b/c they would hurt? I mean about you...like, sorry to ask - but have you gained a lot of weight?

After having twins it must be hard to get back to where you were or want to be...but taking care of yourself is part of GAL and the 180s. What are your 180s? And what are your GAL? (Sometimes they overlap like a 180 could be to take up a hobby AND it is also GAL, but they also differ)...

and could he possibly see you as a woman who is chronically angst filled with worry and suspicion? Those are things you can work on NOW.

What did you think about my question re: how we can bring about the very things we most fear??


can this be turned around? we've been separated for acouple of months, but he has been unhappy for a long time, so he feels like this is it, he's finally letting go, I just don't feel that it is.

here is the "math" of it...

Consistent change + sufficient time = change he can believe in.

Name 2 changes in you...and begin GAL--- asap.

We hammer GAL and detachment for 1 reason. It works.

What's stopping you from implementing the DB techniques?

B/c if you do not even try them, but just keep asking us to predict the future, I'll predict failure. You have to try. what are you waiting for?


and if we're already separated, how does the 180 work?


2 ways. First, the 180s are mostly For YOU to help with the changes you choose to make b/c you want to become a woman only a fool would leave.

and so what HE sees or notices is not relevant. Besides, #2 way the 180s work is they help you detach and feel better and happier and that W I L L S H O W

from within. Once I came to believe my h was losing more than me, that I really was going to be more than "alright" without h, but actually happy, I LET IT SINK IN, and in time, it just radiated from within. I didn't have to tell him a thing.

The kids would share with my h when I had been "out with friends" the night before or that I'd gone skydiving for my birthday...went to see a show, applied for a new job, NONE of which I told him...BUT I also did not use my kids as messengers. Other people saw us and besides, when you stop asking him all those questions, he will notice that. Mainly it helps that he's not around b/c the changes are actually easier to notice when you don't see each other every day.

Get a haircut and change something in your appearance and wear a NEW different perfume, etc. Those are easy and visible changes....not made to get him back...but made b/c YOU are starting your "awakening" and GAL and you are one fun loving happy woman to be around....right???


do we just communicate about the kids? so many questions, and you've probably heard them all before lol

for now & foreseeable future, yes you only communicate about the kids. The rest of YOUR life is off limits to him and his, to you.

Read the "rules" above, again..and again til they sink in. I sense your neediness and anxiety and it makes me nervous just reading it.

Stop letting fear dictate your actions/words (LIFE).

When you operate in Fear, you are not operating in Faith.

read the DR or DB book asap please...

Good luck

[watto14]

25yearsmlc, I have just re read or read your above reply in its entirety and I wish I had seen it all earlier, I just wanted to respond. not long after bd, I did decide that I needed a 'change' so had hair extensions put in, I normally dress well as im a beauty therapist and personal grooming is important.
I am actually trying to gain weight as I want to compete in figure body building next year, I am naturally slender and I have thyroid disease, so gaining weight is an issue, so after I had the twins dropped right off.
I have made some new friends that are not part of our normal social group or related to h, and its nice just to be 'me', I have signed up for a couple of classes that will completely take me out of my comfort zone.
I do not want to live my life based on fear anymore,
I have printed out rules and put them where I(not anyone else) can see them every day.
I know its going to take a long time to un do the damage from the past and Im ready to begin the journey, I know there will be backsliding but I am committed, for myself, for our children and for m.

[25yearsmlc]

Watto,

Glad to hear of these efforts. Since you have not gotten the DB book(s) yet, I'll keep my further suggestions as applicable as possible.

25yearsmlc, I have just re read or read your above reply in its entirety and I wish I had seen it all earlier, I just wanted to respond. not long after bd, I did decide that I needed a 'change' so had hair extensions put in, I normally dress well as im a beauty therapist and personal grooming is important.


So, you are taking care of your appearance, and you made a change in your looks, correct? That's fine. Seriously, it's good! But a 180 is more about your behavior, (though I guess if you had NOT taken care of yourself before, this would be a "180"...)

In any event, looking our best is always a good idea, especially after BD. Makes sense, b/c hey, it's a lot easier to Not miss someone when they are miserable acting and miserable appearing...it makes us uncomfortable and discomfort is not something people enjoy being around. I think you get this.


I am actually trying to gain weight as I want to compete in figure body building next year, I am naturally slender and I have thyroid disease, so gaining weight is an issue, so after I had the twins dropped right off.


I think I understand this^^. But to be sure I do, let me re-cap. You're endeavoring to do something new, which is body building and which requires you to gain weight (in a healthy "muscular but feminine " way), right? As for the thyroid disease, if I'm not mistaken, a hyper thyroid (as opposed to hypOthyroid,) can increase nervousness and anxiety, as well as cause weight loss.

Is that^^ something you have checked out? Are there any physical elements to some of your fears and anxieties? A thorough physical is a great idea at these times. I know I didn't sleep well for a LONG time and that takes a toll on our emotions as well.


I have made some new friends that are not part of our normal social group or related to h, and its nice just to be 'me', I have signed up for a couple of classes that will completely take me out of my comfort zone.


WELL DONE!!! (Clap Clap, LOUD APPLAUSE!!)


I do not want to live my life based on fear anymore,


That^^ is a powerful thing to say, and an even more powerful and empowering tenet to live by. What are you willing to do, to learn how to live this way?


I have printed out rules and put them where I(not anyone else) can see them every day.

Been there, ^^ done that.


I know its going to take a long time to un do the damage from the past and Im ready to begin the journey, I know there will be backsliding but I am committed, for myself, for our children and for m.

There is a lot of healing needed, by both of you. And so you know, your growth and progress are not going to be linear. But if you do the work, it does happen.

Own your piece, avail yourself of the many resources around. Counselors who are solution based do exist, they are not all just about just validating a choice to leave.

Get the TOOLS you need to help you. I'd like to suggest some tools in particular.


For individual personal growth, check out the workshop "Essential Experience", in Philadelphia (aka "EE"). It's literally life changing. Several DBers have attended (not just me!) and all got a lot out of it. For instance, me, PowerOfNow, AutumnLeaves, Stubborn Dyke, Lucky Luke, and others...

I think workshops are more "efficient" b/c merely going weekly to IC, can be fragmented--even when you have a good IC -b/c when you make a breakthrough, then you have to go back to work or pick up the kids.

But of course, any help is good. Just for my h and I, a long weekend of working on our lives, sure gave us a jump start.

For couples, Retrovaille has an impressive record. It's a weekend retreat designed for marriages in crisis. So It's not a marriage "encounter", and that's good b/c if you are here on DB, you need more than an encounter.

But sometimes it's hard to get both parties to a couples workshop (i.e. Retrovaille). One partner may not want to go, or says they don't want to stay married - so why bother, or even commit to a weekend, even if you say it's "for communication" issues..

But if you can get there, it'll be good.

Attending a worksop for individuals is logistically easier. It also does not rely on both people to get something out of it. You go, and YOU do your work and that's a pay off in itself, you know?

Speaking for myself, EE was a lot easier to do without my h there.

I was attending for my own family/childhood and professional issues anyhow,.

But it was also much less inhibiting to go without my h, which I did not know until I got there.

I went decades ago and "my own" stuff included my R with my MIL. I never would have worked on that at the workshop, in front of my h. So, going separately was good for us.

When I returned from EE, my h said he actually could "See" changes in me at the airport (I felt very serene and at peace with the world). So a few months later my h went. That was so fantastic for our marriage.

Many years later --- when we had a real marital crisis, it was partly b/c of EE that I bothered even trying to reconcile, b/c I knew we once had a truly deep bond and a great marriage...so I believed we had the potential for returning to a deep and close bond, b/c we'd had that!!

So we originally attended separately and then later, we did "team" for others, together. VERY bonding.

At this point, since you know you have your own "stuff" to work on, much of which preceded any affair, I am glad to see that you are owning that.

I also hope you'll look hard at EE...if it's too far to go (they'll house you, btw), then try Lifespring. I have heard it's a bit like EE. Other workshops, not so much.

I don't know another individual workshop that is worth the money and follows a solution based approach.

I'm glad you are focusing on your work. It's not going to be easy, but it is the only thing within your control.

Lest someone else here urge you to "Fix" your h, remember, he's not within your control AND your h is not here working to save the m --- so there's nothing for us to say now, about his choices.



IF it comes down to it and you do your work, and THEN if your h isn't able to keep vows of fidelity, at least you'll know what part is yours and what part is his -- and you'll have done YOUR work. Then you can turn it all over to God and live your life.

Make sense?

If the pain of your memories or images keep polluting your PMA, turn it over to God (or the "universe" or whatever entity you rely on for inner peace).

I literally had to do that in the shower a lot while h was gone. ( I'd say "God, I turn this marriage/pain/anger over to you"...)

I didn't want the kid to hear me. i'd say it dozens of times in a shower, and thinking it, saying it out loud and hearing myself say it, helped it sink in. It calmed me. Over time, my pain seemed more manageable. Give that a try. And if you do hand it over to God, don't go taking it back the next day...

You know, if you DO your own personal work, if you stop living your life in fear, then no matter what your h chooses to do, YOU will be a happier & more content woman. That is no small thing.

Good luck - and hang in there.