Save me from myself, need true guidance.

[Corbean]

Hi all,

I've stuck to the newcomer's forums mainly. I'll link to my first post and you can track them from there if you're interested.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...290#Post2450290

So here's the deal. I've seriously screwed up my sitch and I'm not sure how to get back on track and to really give my M a chance. Right now I feel like I've probably pushed her so far away that I'm started at square -50.

At first I was doing all the normal things, promising change, begging for another chance all that normal stuff. Then I went to even more extremes I started checking the phone bills, found out she was talking to other guys, and then she started sleeping with another man. At this point I went off the deep end and started reading her texts. I started arguments with her about it and I think I pushed her farther into his arms. The texts had me so mad that I went dark, but I didn't go dark and still be friendly to her I was mean and cold and not nice at all. Simply dark and cold, she tried to call me on two occasions to "talk", but I just shut her out.

I even went so far as to call her and tell her that I wanted to work on our marriage and for her to leave him and let's rebuild our marriage, then when she said she wasn't ready for that I told her then that I would no longer be talking to her about anything except our children. That as long as she was involved with another man then I was nothing more than a father to her children.

At this point I totally shut down on her. However, I kept reading her text messages and saw her talking to different guys than the one she's living with. This infuriated me and I told her that I would cooperate on a divorce and that we could work the details out etc. I also made her make arrangements to come and get her stuff because I needed to move to a cheaper place (which is actually true if we aren't together.) Then the next day I text her again and told her that I wouldn't file for divorce, if she wanted it then she could pay for it and file it herself, because I didn't support it.

That was when I actually realized how bad reading the texts was for me. However, I was still non cooperative with her and was being cold and indifferent. This all culminated to this past Sunday when she came to get her stuff.

I was expecting things to be tense and uncomfortable, which at first they were. Then we made our way to the kitchen and while we were dividing stuff she told me that she's not even sure that she wants a divorce, but she's not sure she wants to be with me either. She tells me that it's not about the other man and that she's only living with him because she didn't want to live at her mom's house, and that she didn't leave me for him, but felt like she needed a guy's attention. This took me by surprise because I was reading their text's for so long and saw her telling him that she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him and vice versa. I admitted to her that I had been reading her texts for a while and that I knew everything, but that I hadn't read them in about two weeks. I then started telling her that the change would be real this time, and tried to explain a bunch of stuff to her and probably made stuff worse. Made her hug me when she didn't initiate, and just really screwed the pooch I think.

However, I did acknowledge that I didn't know she still felt that way and just assumed that she was completely done with the M and that's why I was so mean and cold. I did tell her that I would start being more civil with her, but still reiterated that I couldn't be friends with her as long as she was with OM.

I was in emotional turmoil all day Sunday and yesterday, then last night I had a come to Jesus with myself. I asked what I really wanted out of all this and looked inside myself and saw what I've really been doing. I'm going to start being completely honest with you guys and I want to stop thinking I can do this alone. I want to 100% stand up for my marriage and I am able to love and forgive her no matter what. She is my wife and we have a family and I want to save that if it's even possible a small amount.

I do however feel like I've pushed her so far away and that I've seriously screwed stuff up. Please help me get back on track and start doing the right things and actually do them.

As for myself, I really and honestly do want to undergo real change and I've started dealing with a lot of my issues in IC and undergoing the "Quest for Authentic Manhood" with a spiritual mentor. I've started doing my GAL and I have some good friends I hang out with, go to a divorce support group, church, started playing basketball again, and doing a lot of reading.

I'll make a list here of the things she said made her want to leave and what I've done to address them so far.

- She said that she felt alone, that she was home alone with the kids all day, and then when I came home I just wanted to get on my IPad and then when the kids were in bed I would get on my computer to play video games while she was left out there to watch TV.

- She said she felt unattractive, and like she was a piece of meat. That I was always just grabbing her boobs and butt and when we would have sex that as soon as we were done I would just hop out of bed and go about my business.

- She said I always lectured her and never listened to her.

- That I never wanted to go out and take her and the kids to do stuff.

- That she never felt like herself, like she had to be fake. She used this as a reason to explain her actions somewhat, saying that when she was finally "free" she just went crazy and wanted to just do whatever. However, she did say she's getting tired of the crazy lifestyle.

Right now that's all I can think of. Here's what I'm doing to work on myself.

- I've sold my computer, and have stopped playing video games. In my IC one of the issues I'm working on is my obsesive personality and how I simply obsess over and over jumping from one obsession to another.

- I can't really do anything here, because she lives 5 hours away. I can just simply compliment her when I do see her, but other than that I don't know. However, I think I probably screw ed this up more Sunday too, because I grabbed her butt and asked her to show me her boobs. Didn't think about this until I was reflecting on things. However, I have stopped looking at porn and masturbating completely because I feel that may have been a huge factor in me objectifying her.

- I screwed up here too, because every time she opens up I just want to talk to her and convince her and help her see the right way. This is an area where I need to just STFU and validate what she's saying. I struggle with this with everyone, and really need to find a way to stop it before it starts rather than realizing it afterwords.

- This is true, between me worrying over money and being obsessed with gaming, I never really wanted to go out. I was also struggling with some depression there. On top of that I stopped taking her out on dates too.

- I'm guilty here too, I was always so focused on "what a happy marriage is supposed to be like" that I always was telling her how she "should" act in an attempt to get us to that perfect marriage. What I didn't realize is that I should simply accept her for who she is and if I want my marriage to change start looking in the mirror. I don't really know what to do about this other than just not judging her. I'll stop referring to the OM and trying to make her feel guilty about it. I did tell her that I understood how she would have felt like this and I needed to simply love her and accept her as she is.

With all that being said, I want to consider this a fresh start in my DB process. I would love some resources, reading recommedations, and some true no holds barred guidance and advice. I love my wife so much and want to save my marriage, but I need to get out of my own way and I'm afraid I screwed things up way more than they had to be, and I need to start repairing and recovering the damage so that there is still a chance instead of pushing her to far.

Thanks for reading this long post and any advice.

[RedHawk98]

Hats off to you, you're owning up to your mistakes.
I have actually made a few very similar ones myself. And like yourself, would do absolutely anything to show that those mistakes would never happen again.

Somwtimes, our wives are just done. You may have to prepare yourself for that possibility.

Be VERY careful on the validating there. Make sure you only validate what is valid. When our wives feel like they're done, they will throw some crap in there too (blatant history revisions, and some outright lies)
Don't dismiss those, question them! It's important to make her feel understood. Important that you actually understand too.

[RedHawk98]

Actually, on a second reading, there's something else that you might want to consider.

The spiritual guidance, faith and IC. If they're actually helping you be happier in yourself, that's fine and good.
But don't let them get too deep.

I say this, because I saw a therapist on one occaision who tried to tell me I had PTSD from a previous relationship and various other issues.

I thought about that and wondered if it did more harm than good. I was just having a tough time. I didn't actually have all these issues.

That was time I could have been spending seeing things from my wife's perspective

[Corbean]

So this morning I came to a harsh realization and that is how selfish I have been throughout our marriage. I always viewed my W and kids as parts of my life and not as my life. I treated my W like she was there to meet my needs and make me happy and other than buying her whatever she wanted I never really focused on making her happy.

As far as a 180 all I can think of is to start showing validation, continue taking a huge interest in my kids. I don't know how to rectify this with her with our limited contact, but it's something that I really want to change. I will bring it up to my IC, but I really need to move the focus from myself in life to the people that matter the most.

[Georgiabelle]

Corbean,

Self reflection is always a good thing. You are correct that many people are forever looking for external forces/factors to *make* them happy. It never works that way. If you don't like yourself and realize that happiness comes from within (and is in part a choice), then one is forever on the search for that elusive happy pill.

Good luck with IC and keep working!

[Corbean]

And I'm correct in assuming telling her this is a bad idea?

[Wonka]

Corbean,

And I'm correct in assuming telling her this is a bad idea?

Talk is cheap. It is actions that W is looking at to ensure consistency and change. The focus should be on YOU.

Have you read up on proper validation techniques?

Validation: Cheat Sheet

[Corbean]

Well I understand now that nothing will ever be resolved between us until she is done with her A.

My question is, besides working on myself, what can I do to speed it along? Just be friendly, validating, and nice? I feel torn between that and just not talking to her at all unless it's about the kids. I know from spying in the past she's pretty hard up for this guy, but I'm trying to not focus on their R and focus on myself and my interactions with her. This really is tough, I've been looking into standing and it's pretty much show her unconditional love no matter what she's doing. This isn't what I have been doing at all, I've been bitter and angry. I'm a little lost honestly.

[Starsky309]

Well I understand now that nothing will ever be resolved between us until she is done with her A.

My question is, besides working on myself, what can I do to speed it along? Just be friendly, validating, and nice? I feel torn between that and just not talking to her at all unless it's about the kids. I know from spying in the past she's pretty hard up for this guy, but I'm trying to not focus on their R and focus on myself and my interactions with her. This really is tough, I've been looking into standing and it's pretty much show her unconditional love no matter what she's doing. This isn't what I have been doing at all, I've been bitter and angry. I'm a little lost honestly.

Hi Corbean,

I would contend that there is a whooooole lot of "grey" in-between the black of "bitter and angry" and the white of "unconditionally loving her and standing for the marriage regardless of what she's doing."

In fact, I pretty much spend most of my time on here paying it forward by advocating that people DB in that "grey" area in the middle.

Yes, we unconditionally love the person, but we DON'T condone the infidelity nor should a MARRIAGE even be an unconditional contract.

This is how I summed it up previously to a different poster:


Puppy's Thoughts on "Unconditional Love":

LOVE is conditional.

FORGIVENESS, too (or -- better -- it is a CHOICE, a DECISION).

RELATIONSHIPS . . . and certainly MARRIAGES . . . I don't believe they are.


It's a MYTH, and I think it's a potentially dangerous one. Marriage is UNDERGIRDED by love -- maybe even unconditional love -- but the marriage contract itself, does that not have all KINDS of conditions?

Would you remain married to your wife if she abused puppies? Did illegal drugs in your home, in front of your children? Was involved in human trafficking? Or would you say "I will ALWAYS love you, but I cannot remain MARRIED to you!" ?

Adultery falls SOMEWHERE on that spectrum for each of us . . .somewhere in-between "abusing puppies" and "you snore too much," lol.

I repeat: LOVE is unconditional. MARRIAGE certainly is NOT. At least it shouldn't be, in my opinion.


Starsky



The tone you want to strike is "I love you, and I DON'T want a divorce, but nor will I tolerate an open marriage. I hope you will end your affair, and come back and work on the marriage with me, and I think you will find me ready and willing to work on all issues, including my own."

What you DON'T want to convey is EITHER bitterness and anger (not beyond a healthy underpinning of righteous indignation where appropriate), nor supplication.

I'd best call it "strong, loving detachment."


Starsky

[Corbean]

Thank you Starsky that honestly clears it up a lot for me.

I can be loving and friendly, but remained detached. I obviously wouldn't say what you said to her, so what specific actions are good examples to strike that grey area you hit on. One thing I did before and I think was a mistake was telling her that as long as she was in an R with the other man I was nothing more than a father to our kids. I refused to talk to her at all unless it regarded the children or something else that couldn't be avoided. I think this was farther on the black side of things and I'd like to live in the grey that you described.

Also, as far as validation. I've realized that I am a talker, whenever we'd have relationship issues I would talk it to absolute death. I mean I could literally go on for hours. A 180, and a huge one that she would notice is that if we get into a discussion would be to shut up and validate. Wonka really helped with the post above, and I'm going to do a lot of studying up on shutting up and validating. I did get a small oppurtunity earlier and was wondering how I did.

We have an agreement that when she has the kids I will call at lunch to talk to them and she will call me before their bedtime. When I have the kids, I call at lunch time (on daughter's therapy days) and she will call before their bedtime. Today was a non therapy day, but I went home to play with the kids anyway and decided to be nice, I called and she didn't answer. Here was the following text conversation about an hour later. Please let me know if I'm getting the hang of this.

W - Did you call for me to talk to S?

M- Yes, I went home at lunch to see them, and figured I'd let him talk to you.

W - Oh sorry I was in the middle of something. How was he?

M - It's ok, I understand that you have a life lol. He's good, just silly.

That was the end of it. How did I do? Thanks for any and all feedback.