afraid I have waited too long #3

[nit84]

Feeling a bit defeated tonight.

Nothing major happening just still battling a few things that don't make sense to me. I understand nothing a WAS does make sense but I still have trouble getting it right in my mind.

Why not when confronted about an A, if it is going on, just be adult enough to admit it?

I haven't produced my evidence and probably never will but my W has to know I know. She was confronted by OM significant other and thought I was the one who put this person up to it. I didn't but if this person had a feeling something is going on. it is about a sure bet that there is something going on.

Again, this isn't a deal breaker but it stinks being an adult and being lied to by another adult not just about the A but almost every facet of our S just to justify their position.

Saying things like "I'm not looking back into my rearview mirror anymore, and honestly you are part of that rearview."

When I validate W feeling on this it just seems to upset her more.

I say things like " I understand how those things from our past have hurt you, You are a very strong person to have dealt with that for all those years."

Is that a bad way to validate?

Another thing is all the work around the house I am doing is upsetting her because she says. " I used to think you were just drunk and didn't hear or listen to me, but all these things you are doing are things I wanted you to do all along. So I know you were listening and hearing me you just didn't change."

And probably worst of all " I can't stand living with you, everyday I have to be here is miserable for me."

When I say "You are free to leave at any point." she counters with " Thanks for your permission but I have no money and you haven't told me what I can and can't have to take with me."

I had the list she prepared for one week then I dropped everything once W got upset about it and did it in 10 mins.

I told her we are both working you take your retirement I will take mine. We will figure out what to do with the house and we can move on. She says that is not fair because you have done great things since you married me and that needs to be distributed fairly.

I said not if we agree that it doesn't.

I said I think it is very unfair on her to think that because I make more money than her by about 60/40 that I should fund her new life.

I told her I have come to accept her feelings on our M and even though to me D is not a solution, I know I will have to let her go and plan to not stand in her way as long as it is in my best interest to do so depending on how I am advised.

Up on the soap box, That it what I think is wrong with our family court system. Two people who supposedly love each other and one decides nope I don't like what is happening so I want out.

If both are able bodied working people of relative young age, who have both worked throughout the M then it should be simple you take what is yours and I will take what is mine, Good luck in your future endeavors. I wish you nothing but the best. no 50/50 split or worse Mumbo Jumbo.

If she want to leave and not even try to work things out, hiding behind excuses not to try, that is her choice.

I don't like it when it seems to be money motivated and I can tell this is reason because otherwise, why drag your feet for 10-11 then decide to file once your money stream has slowed to a trickle.

If she wants to go live what is thought to be a happier life with someone else fine. Just start over exactly the way WE did when WE first got M.

The people that stay together, at least the ones I know, never forget what it was like to struggle in the beginning. It makes their love stronger to make it through that. After all, the honey moon phase always wears off and to be able to recall the tough times from the past I think allows them to press forward even though there are High mountains and deep valleys in every M they somehow survive it to be M for 40 50 60+ years.

I thought this how my M was going. I never claimed to have the perfect M, far far from it but The one constant in all of this is not for one second did I ever doubt my love for my W.

I did unloving things sometimes, we almost all do, once I realized how these things affected my W love towards me, I made a commitment to learn how to create a new stronger and more loving R. My W has decided to take her own journey in a direction she feels is correct for her.

I only wish that I had this knowledge when we first got married. It would have made a world of difference in my particular sitch on a lot of fronts.

Down off the soapbox for now.

[nit84]

Well it seems as though my W is going away for the weekend

Seeing that she has a suitcase packed and all.

She is using her own money so no problem there but we have a hearing next week to determine how much I must pay her per month and pay for her L fees(I think I already have in an accounting sorta way) till we are D so that she can live a normal life and maybe get her own place till then. It just stinks because she has yet to give me any money towards June bills which are paid and I have moved on to paying July's stuff.

It appears that she is making enough money to enjoy herself while I am fretting a bit on how in about 3 months I may have to get a second job to pay all the household bills.

I have never had anyone close to me go through this type of hearing. It seems like a simple calculation of what I make in my paycheck vs what she makes in her paycheck(not counting under the table money which I think may still be getting paid).


It is somewhat frustrating that she is the one who wants out but I am the one who is going to foot the bill.


Anybody been through this before? Just trying to understand how scr**ed I am and why it has to be that way.

I feel I have good L but I am not sure that will matter.

[nit84]

Well here I am at the one year mark of BD,

I know I am a different person but I am wondering if I am a better person or just a changed person.

I think I have learned what it takes to make a M work and would love to try that but W has other ideas.

I have snooped enough and stopped once it become apparent that what I thought was true was indeed true.

I asked W if she was having an A straight up she denied it. I said ok thanks for answering but I'm sorry I have this feeling in the back of my brain that tells me otherwise but I will trust that you mean what you say.

I did not accuse, get all upset, plead with her or nothing just left it alone because it is not a deal breaker for me.

I have done things around the house that I wanted to do to fix it up. Of course, it is too little too late for my W but I haven't stopped because these are things I wanted do for me and my sanity. She has commented a decent about amount about these things I have done but never really any affirmative responses just really a lot of, "I didn't think you were listening to me but you were because these things you are doing is everything I wanted you to for years." type answers and "all this is nice but you never changed back then and now I'm not looking back in my rearview. It doesn't matter that you changed now or whatever."

I validate and let it go.

I feel detached for the most part but really not sure because although things my W says or does don't affect as much emotionally or mentally anymore.

I still find myself trying to understand why she says things but doesn't act on them.

For instance, Never since I moved back home, now near 7 months, Have I asked her to stay here with me.

Every so often when something goes wrong for her and she gets upset I am always to blame(I get understand that is always the case with WAW). She still says she is afraid of me, living here with me is complete hell and well you get the point.

I tell her she is free to leave any time,not in a mean way, just that I will never try and beg her to stay.

She then always comes up with an excuse. No money or I wont tell her what she can take with to live furniture wise.I have been asking for list since Nov 2013 finally got one 3 weeks ago, waited a week, she got upset I hadn't done it, so I stopped what I was doing and went through it and it was not very emcompassing at all. She said I didn't have to stop what I was doing. I said "you just said I was roadblocking you so I wanted to show good faith and help you with your request."

I believe she wants to leave but is waiting till after our hearing, to determine APL and if I must pay W legal fees, to do so. But when I ask her when she is moving she says I didn't say a date we just need to keep moving forward.

I know I will have to give her some assistance because of the laws in my state. My L says it depends on what W says at hearing and maybe I can get it lowered some.

If it doesn't go in my W favor enough she may not move. I am ok with that but don't understand if she is afraid of me and I make life hell then move in with someone, anyone(except male because that would take away any monetary support from me) so W can feel safe and free from my hell.

I don't want to force her out but at the same time if she stays I need to handle things differently I suppose. Any suggestion? Being nice and non arguementative, givng her space and not pleading(much) haven't worked. But neither has validating and empathizing actually.

My L has some things planned that I think might surprise my W. It will upset her greatly. It may not help what I have give my wife each month until D is final but the overall may swing a little in my favor in the long run.

I know this has to be done to protect my interests but I really don't want it to embarrass or hurt my W in any way.

I understand she couldn't give a rat's a** about me right now but once reality hits her maybe it will be a different story about working on things down the road but maybe not and if that is the case so be it.

I honestly believe my W is being forced to proceed with the D by some people. I can't control that but I feel the longer this goes the better chance I have to possibly R. Just the mere fact that the house is looking nicer and I am continuing all the things I have been doing since BD like IMC, church, no drinking and going to the gym(restarting 7/1 after a 2 months break because of work) can only help. These things have become 2nd nature at this point so I know they will stick. Problem is W still isn't trusting that.

Overall, I am doing ok and I owe a lot of thanks to all on this forum who have helped me. Without this board I would have done all the wrong things. I don't know if my M can be saved but finding this place is giving me my best shot.

I know my thread is long and tedious to read but if anyone wants to read it again and has any more comments or advice it is always appreciated.

[nit84]

Not sure if this is a good idea or not.

In my last post I mentioned how maybe I need to do things differently once this hearing about money assistance takes place on Monday.

Would me telling my W that I am moving back into our bedroom because I am paying for it so I mine as well use it(not necessarily in those words). She is free to stay in there or move to the spare room And also I am using the upstairs bathroom if it is more convenient for me. Instead of constantly going downstairs to use that bathroom for showers and etc.

Maybe I have taken this giving space and respect for her thing too far?

I don't want to turn into a jerk but wth if being nice isn't working maybe a little bit of "I don't care anymore" is in order.

Is this wise or is there some other way that I can show her I'm pretty detached at the moment without invading her spaces to do it?

[nit84]

Did ever read something after you posted and then thought about it?

the ^^^post is one of those. Sorry to waste peoples time with it.

[pilot]

Haha, of course we all do.

[nit84]

Has anybody on here been S but still living under the same roof, had the D complaint filed against you, Had a hearing to determine APL(alimony pendant lite or life-not sure) which is Money I must give to WAW until the D is final and still stayed under the same roof?

I know that was long but it is what I might be facing at months end.

Not really sure how to handle this if W stays after support hearing.

Is there anything I can do to relieve this anxiety?

She told me where she went over the weekend. It was with work people to a work function so I know OM wasn't there.

She didn't have to tell me and TBH I didn't really care.

She says she doesn't want to talk to me socially yet tells me where she went and we shoot the breeze about it. I normally try to end the conversation and go GAL.

When I go outside all I do is shake my head. This behavior is hard for me to understand I don't want mind read so I don't but this behavior baffles me.

I try to start some small talk sometimes and she responds but it feels like she doesn't want to continue so again I go away and GAL to not pressure a conversation out of her.

If W says she doesn't want to talk to me, I respect her wishes, Then she talks to me and I listen and if need be validate or empathize.

I have asked her why we cant talk and all she says is I will get the wrong idea and think we are getting back together. I say why cant we watch TV together and she says because it is not like it used to be. I fully understand that but if we watch TV together and talk about what we are watching or anything else unrelated to our sitch where is the issue? She says I know you, it won't be that way.

I validate her on that and just say ok well, the offer stands if you want to.

Is it conceited to think that my W is afraid to do these things(talk and watch TV or even church) because maybe I really have changed and these changes will stick? Maybe it is easier to avoid that scenario that way it doesn't muddy up her mind with doubt.

The last thing I want to do is sing my praises but I am proud that I have been through the storm and think I have made it out the other side a better man.

The only nagging feeling is that I still haven't done everything in my power to save my M.

Many friends and family have told me I have, but I need to know in my heart that I tried everything. When does this feeling subside?

[nit84]

Today is the day I find out how much I will have to pay my W each month till we are D.

I don't know if she will be staying the home with me or not after today. It won't bother me either way.

If she stays though, do I continue doing what I have been or do something different?

Problem is I am out of 180's to try I think. My current 180's are getting a reaction, not very positive, but she still is hell bent on getting a D.

Detaching is going ok but she says things like if you accepting this and going to be ok why not "lets just do this" and be done.

I said D is not a solution to me, I won't roadblock you but I have to look out for my best interests.

You can continue to proceed towards your goal but understand where I am coming from as I have tried to understand your position.

I guess she will either be real happy or real frustrated by this evening and now that it is in the court system neither one of us has really any control anymore and that is somewhat disturbing.

[nit84]

Horrible turn in my Sitch,

We had the hearing yesterday to determine how much I must pay W till we are D however long that takes. Not roadblocking but not helping either.

My L came prepared as did I, W and her L were prepared but not to the extent they would have liked I suspect.

After all was said and done I must Pay W an amount each month but she still has to pay a % of bills. when it shakes out I am really giving the W about 150.00 per month.

If she moves out that may change to about 400.00 or 500.00 but not enough to get a decent place to live without dipping into what ever money she makes at her job. She didn't lie about her income but wasn't forthcoming with needed information until pressed for it.

We claimed she had another job offer for a higher salary that she could take if she wanted but was probably waiting to see what she would get before committing to this other offer because it will affect her time at the gym I believe and a by-product is less time with OM who works at the gym.

My L advised to do anything to protect myself against being stepped on and to find out any info I could. So I did as I was advised nothing illegal but it still didn't feel right.

We held our cards close to vest until we had to negotiate a lower number. Her L was not cocky but confident and then after the 2 L got together his attitude changed somewhat. then My W and her L went away and when W came back she was fuming. Apparently she wasn't telling her L everything and now was a bit embarrassed and ticked off that I would protect myself. because I guess she had to explain some thing to him that never wanted to.

WE were left alone for a bit and she started calling me every name under sun I am snake, wtf, I have no respect for her. If I did the one thing she thinks I did I must have done another so that is just great. I am dead to her now have a great life etc....

When we returned home she of course was on the phone telling anybody that would listen that I m all those names and more.

WE both left to cool down. She came back with a new cell phone carrier and a lock for our bedroom door. Not sure if she can do that but it is what it is. She said when she goes she will put the other lock back on. She didn't say when she is leaving though.

When I told her I wasn't sure she was allowed to lock a door in our house. She said I am harassing her and got her Mom on the phone to be a witness. I said well I feel threaten because The OM girlfriend/wife of what ever has threaten her so I should file a report not charges but a report.

She said that never happened it was all to see how I would react I said did I pass the test? Not sure if she is not telling the truth here or not but I said well even if you are lying it is best I file a report.

She said OM and girlfriend have nothing to do with us. I countered and maybe shouldn't have with yes they do because I am M to you and obviously she feels like me. She got upset when I said well if we have to subpoena them for down the road the truth will be told.

Once again a huge tirade, I tried to validate but it was difficult being dead to her and all. I said just be adult about it. I asked if her Mom knew about OM and was she happy for her She said her mom knew they are friends. She got upset again. Then said we are S so I can do what ever I want I said yes you can you are and adult and can choose to do whatever you feel is best for yourself. So you are dating him then. She said JUst because you found receipts doesn't mean I am in his bed. I said what receipts. She got P.O.'d again thinking she said too much.

I told her I was keeping this between us but I had to tell my L so I could protect myself. She that was clearly not the case and you are telling everyone. I said no but more people are telling me things and that [censored] but it still doesn't change how I feel about her. I got a little upset and said Your not 1st person OM has done this with there is like 4 or 5 other women. So chances are he is cheating on you and that must make you feel horrible.( I made this up because I was mad). She really got upset so then said if I wanted to be a private eye I should do a better job. I said Its a small world no need for a investigator. It will all come out not by my doing but I know I will get blamed but if asked I can explain it all.


I remained calm but probably should have walked away. I have kept this OM b.s. between us. She knows I know and now is mad.

This is not good DBing I know, but I felt like W was cake eating and maybe that is why I keep going a little too far. I know this is a backside. Not sure if W has done the math yet so could be another wave coming at some point. My L and W L know I want to stand for my M not sure if what happened yesterday is a Death Sentence or not.

I will now start over I guess and allow my W to continue on her journey as I will continue to DB.

How bad did I mess things up?

[nit84]

MrBond, Your W did not talk to you for three years correct?

Was that absolutely no conversation at all even if you were asking a business question?

The reason I ask is now that the hearing is over and my W knows I was advised to protect myself by my L, She is seething mad worst I have ever seen a human being. I asked if she knew when she was moving out and nothing. I told her I wanted to get a puppy and didn't want to have her need to work around an animal to move things out.

I again asked about cell phone and nothing.

I know she is beyond mad and it will take time if ever for her to speak to me again. She said I am dead to her.

I guess protecting myself wasn't what she thought I would do and I would just roll over because I love her. My feelings haven't changed for her at all.

Why is she so surprised about how this was going to go? I told her the day she gave me the D papers it was now going to be even worse because we are now relying on other people(L's) to look into our Sitch and do what is in the best interest of both of us.

My L didn't even bring up the possibility of an A with her L But once she knew I snooped a little she knew I probably snooped a lot more. She slipped up and mentions receipts don't mean a thing. I said what receipts? I didn't find any receipts then she said Well how do you know then? She didn't come right out and admit it but her body language, attitude, and some of how she answers some questions probably says tons.

I knew it was going to be bad just wondering what should do now. Any Ideas?