Sex was great, part 2

[Ben2010]

Really youre crying about something that most of us on here dont even have dude. You live with your W right now and it isnt like she is all the time angry with you. Youre just mad because you cant have sex with her. Thats pathetic. I wish that was my only issue. Im sure most people on here do. Now youre ready to run when you havent even been doing this for a month yet??? I have to be excited when my W agrees to go on a date with me this weekend. You are looking past all of the positives that you have. Youre a pathetic person in general.

[Grey]

Screw it, you're right Starsky, if sex is important to me I should just start thinking of how to leave. I don't want to but I think you're right about this and if it is me being "needy" then I married the wrong person to meet my needs, simple as that.

I never said that you wanting a healthy sex life with your wife was being "needy."

I characterized your above post and reaction to the last 24 hours as coming across as needy.

However, based on your patience for dealing with the SSM issues and a woman turning 50 and whatever else she may have going on, I tend to agree that you have neither the patience, temperament nor empathy for working thru it with her. If you cannot place your own needs on hold for even 24 HOURS without needing to cling to her, then you probably have no hope of doing the hard work necessary to find a potential solution to this.


Starsky

I think you're misinterpreting my patience.

I can (and have) gone much longer than 24 hours without feeling alone or upset about having a sexless marriage, without bringing it up, without pressuring her, without expecting her to change or care about my needs. Give me at least SOME credit because I've worked hard at it and our relationship has gotten even better as a result.


But at some point I can't completely forget and not feel lonely or unwanted ot not think about sex. Hell, even when I thought I was able to, I had a wet dream. It was horrible, crushed my ego, felt like a secret I had to keep.


For example, last night I couldn't sleep. I was exhausted, but couldn't fall asleep. It wasn't that I couldn't sleep because I felt alone and upset about my sexless marriage, but it is that crazy or "impatient" of me that it happens?
Hell, sex MAKES me sleepy--------did you know when men have sex it releases a chemical that makes them sleepy? Women don't have that, but it's a physiological truth in men. It's like, not only do I want/need sex, but nobody would say I don't need sleep, and here next to me is my beautiful wife who doesn't want me to lose sleep but doesn't want to have sex with her husband. Can you not see how that doesn't make me feel BETTER?

Like, you're telling me to forget about my need of sex. HOW?! I've tried; it's not like I haven't tried, and most of the time I've gotten very good about it, but I KNOW in six months I won't be able to stop myself from having feelings of doubt and rejection and hurt. I didn't plan on feeling that way last night------it just happened and it hurt, not because I'm not patient.
I'm a good looking guy and I'm nice-------women flirt with me, or at least it feels like flirting because it feels so good in a way I miss getting from my wife. I don't reciprocate, I am afraid to say anything to most women now, but when someone says "hey handsome" or something like that I can't help but feel like I wish my wife actually thought about me that way.

[Grey]

Really youre crying about something that most of us on here dont even have dude. You live with your W right now and it isnt like she is all the time angry with you. Youre just mad because you cant have sex with her. Thats pathetic. I wish that was my only issue. Im sure most people on here do. Now youre ready to run when you havent even been doing this for a month yet??? I have to be excited when my W agrees to go on a date with me this weekend. You are looking past all of the positives that you have. Youre a pathetic person in general.

Thanks for your help?

[Grey]

Oh and a friendly warning. The next person you end up with whom you think is "perfect" may develop this same thing. The decision for you is if you are willing to keep going through a string of relationships to fulfill your sexual needs like you did in your past.

Has anyone read any of Michele's books?

Why is she the only one saying it's ok for people to want sex and people have sex into their 90's instead of their 40's?

I was meeting my wife's needs. I adapted to meet them better, both before and after marriage, both before and after the marriage became sex-starved. Michele says it doesn't matter if it's the man or the woman and that you don't just quit or be the ultimate patient person while not just hiding your pain but lying about it and spending more money and time and everything BUT physical touch on your partner.

I don't get it. I thought what Michele said made a lot of sense.

[Starsky309]

Like, you're telling me to forget about my need of sex. HOW?!

By focusing on your wife, and her current needs, unconditionally, for whatever period of time you feel you can do that.


You know, the same thing pretty much everybody has been telling you, ad nauseum.


Starsky

[MrBond]

I think I should stress that your M is NOT sex-starved. You haven't had sex in a couple of weeks and you think it's the end of the world. Rather than working on her needs right now, you're just thinking of your own. I'm sure the health scare for her is more important than you getting your rocks off.

That's what everyone has been stressing to you. That M is for "in sickness and health". She's dealing with alot right now and you don't want to.

[Grey]

I think I should stress that your M is NOT sex-starved. You haven't had sex in a couple of weeks and you think it's the end of the world. Rather than working on her needs right now, you're just thinking of your own. I'm sure the health scare for her is more important than you getting your rocks off.

That's what everyone has been stressing to you. That M is for "in sickness and health". She's dealing with alot right now and you don't want to.

Rather than working on her needs right now...

This is the part that bothers me. Nobody is listening to that part. I work on her needs. I do. Her needs are met. She IS happy. I HAVE changed. I was good before, now I'm even better AND I don't bring up my needs, no matter how bad they hurt.

Most of the time, I have been able to change myself to want less sex. But sometimes, there it is, whether I want to feel bad or not, and I can't help it. How can I meet her needs when she's asleep and I can't sleep, for example? It's not like I don't try to do other things, or that I'm asking for a magic pill to make her want sex again,

And by Michele's very definition, yes, the marriage is sex-starved (not to mention it's been more than a couple of weeks, but I understand the frustration with the people who have waited years being unhappy). By Michele's definition a sexless marriage is one where sex is an average of less than 10 times a year, and I am hurt by the lack of physical affection we had last October. Same for women, right? Starving children in Somalia doesn't mean I don't or can't hurt from not being wanted, know what I mean? I know people have it worse, just as much as I hope this can be better.

So you've got experience, but you also weren't meeting your wife's needs it sounded like before. What did you do when you DID feel bad, in a way that my wife doesn't feel and wouldn't want me to feel? You worked on meeting your wife's needs, correct? Are there or were there any times where you WANTED or NEEDED anything, anything at all, but you were only focusing on your wife's needs and, if so, what did you do at those times and for how long? When I'm up at night and all of a sudden I feel alone, what would you suggest I should do?

[MrBond]

"This is the part that bothers me. Nobody is listening to that part. I work on her needs. I do. Her needs are met. She IS happy. I HAVE changed. I was good before, now I'm even better AND I don't bring up my needs, no matter how bad they hurt. "

Everyone is listening. You're not understanding what people are telling you. There wasn't a "problem" in your M . This is what M is like. You're going to have highs and lows. You as well as her. You have to have the PATIENCE to see how things go and act accordingly. It's great that she's happy. All that changing you're doing should be for you and not for her. If they make your life better, then great. But don't keep "expecting" that if you do 'A', that 'B' is going to happen. It's not what life is all about.

Your W has health issues. That's her number one concern. For an extreme example, what if you had cancer. Would that be top of your mind or would sex? You say you get frustrated because YOU FEEL she should do this and that. But the fact is that you ARE NOT the sick one. It's easy for you to make it sound so simple, but it isn't for her.

"When I'm up at night and all of a sudden I feel alone, what would you suggest I should do?"

Grow up and discover what M is all about. If you put all of your self-worth into sex and that if you don't have it for a couple of weeks, you "feel alone", then M isn't for you.

If you feel the need to do something, then talk to her about it without sounding needy. Tell her how you feel and come up with a compromise that both of you are comfortable with. That's how mature, adult M'd people act.

[Grey]

Grow up and discover what M is all about. If you put all of your self-worth into sex and that if you don't have it for a couple of weeks, you "feel alone", then M isn't for you.

I don't put all my self-worth into sex. I just know (and knew) it is important to me.

If I don't have sex more than a sexless marriage, I don't understand why Michele would write a book about dealing with it. I won't stay in a sexless marriage forever, if that helps.

You're right----it is too important to my well being and esteem and life is just too damn short. How long will I wait? 1 year? 4 years? I'm going to at least wait until she tries something new or tries counseling or anything to show me that she's trying, but I AM patient, the problem is I keep telling myself not to feel hurt by her when I truly feel hurt and alone and can't help it. You can't do that for years without changing completely. If that's the case, I'd like if she changed so she didn't need me to do the lawn anymore. That would be nice.

I'm going to read the book again. It feels like I'm being told I don't belong in a marriage because of how I feel sometimes instead of how I act to my wife all the time.

[GoatGal]

Grey,

Please take what I say in the spirit in which it is given, because I honestly am trying--one last time---to help you see what we mean.
----------------------------------------------------

There is something about the way you have latched onto this issue, the "averages" per Michelle on SSM, the statistics, the way it seems you are missing the forest for the trees.
The way you seem to be missing the point about trying to see things from her persecutive "how can I meet her needs when she's asleep?" being a literal example of what I mean... sort of makes me think that putting yourself in her shoes--really doing that--is something that does not naturally.

There's something about the way you seem fixated, wanting a concrete answer, for things to conform in some way, "I do X and Y should happen",
"A marriage should be X, with sex this many times, on average", or it fits into this category or that.
It is ALL TOO FAMILIAR to me.

(The thing with the puppies affecting a woman's libido was kind of funny, but also disconcerting when I realized you were deadly serious. I also noticed you haven't responded to any of the humor offered up.)

In fact, you're deadly serious and extremely upset about this, way more than seems "average" to the rest of us.

So I'm just going to throw this out there and you take it if it rings a bell, or chuck it out the window.

But before you do, think about it really hard and maybe get more info before you tell me to stick my head in the oven. (JOKING!! )


Some here on this board know I have ADD and mild Asperger's.
Now--I'm no doctor, not by a long shot, but I have many friends that fit that description and they are some of the coolest, kindest, most creative, interesting, (best looking!) people I know.

Some things you've said and the way you've said them, and the overall interpretation you're putting on things (very black/white/statistical/concrete/not being OK with things being open-ended and vague) is something I struggle with myself.

I'm not saying you have Asperger's/ADD, but just wondering if you'd ever heard that you deal with things a bit differently than the average person, or as a child?

For the record, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 43 and 50, and it was a shock. But it sure did explain an awful lot!

Same for some of my friends.
They were driving their spouses up the wall (NOT SAYING YOU ARE DOING THIS!) and just missing social cues, misinterpreting social interactions...
They have since gone and done all the self-tests, etc. and got it confirmed that they are, in fact, wired a bit differently.

Like me, they took advantage of this information and have improved their lives and relationships in general.

In my case it was really subtle and I compensate REALLY well. I didn't think it was affecting my marriage except in subtle ways, (H has ADD too, not Asperger's though), so we sort of "got" each other. It's all the same spectrum. But probably it has in some weird way. I'm not even sure it would be a negative, to tell you the truth. I am extremely loyal, serious sense of right and wrong. Completely trustworthy.

It's hard to get a sense for this in a forum like this, but I can pick people out pretty well in person. (Takes one to know one.) And your posts just seem---familiar. Maybe that's why I feel compelled to keep responding. I dunno.

Anyhow, before you go off on me and tell me there's nothing to it, do yourself a favor and take a few of the online tests, just for fun.

Then come back here and tell me I'm a donkey's behind....

But honestly?
I was reading your posts last night and it sort of popped out at me...

It won't fix your sex life, but it might give you some insight.
Then again, this is just a anonymous forum and I'm in no position to do anything other than share my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Good luck!

---GG

PS: If you have preconceived notions about people on the spectrum not succeeding in work or love or life, I might remind you that countless physicians, artists, musicians, scientists, visionaries, and some of the brightest people EVER have fallen somewhere on that same spectrum. Not just me.