Cross country DB with WAS

[Underdog]

db,

During Sunday's talk, I tried to be empathetic and tried as much as possible to validate what she was saying.

It sure sounds as though you succeeded here. You entered uncharted territory, and it paid off.

A key thing she did say was that she was glad we could still talk like this. This is the point where she then asked what I thought about us staying in contact as we moved on.

DB, I think this sounds awfully positive. Be more of the person that she needs you to be and less of the one she doesn't. From my vantage point, it sure looks like she is open to the possibilities. And please don't discount friendship or the possibility of it. I have a handful of friends who successfully reconciled (most of them after D), and friendship was the foundation of creating a new and happier relationship that led to remarriage. And when I say handful, I mean more than 5. That's a pretty high number. Why not you?

So I think you have the makings of a goal list here for that to happen: "Show that I am not indifferent to my W or her needs."

What can you to do support this on an ongoing basis? Without saying things that you know will drive her away and any other pursuing behaviors. List 3-5 and make that your focus for the next few weeks. Now you also know for sure that you *can* talk to her about difficult stuff and navigate those waters well. Build on those successes, DB. More of what works, less of what doesn't. And tweak when you notice things are moving away from you.

Good luck!

Betsey

[Anders]

And please don't discount friendship or the possibility of it.

Thanks the feedback Betsey. I am very curious about this point on friendship and interested in getting more advice on perspectives about this from you and others.

Advice provided on other threads on this say that as long there is another person in WASs life, friendship should not be an option available to them. That the interactions should be kept strictly to business.

[Anders]

Journal:

Good day today. I feel like I have stabilized my spinning airplane though still hoping along on one engine.

Work has been busy which has helped keep my mind off things.

There are instances where I can easily see life without W in it and feel completely okay about it. And there are moments where I feel really sad if that were to happen. Continuing to work on detaching and having no expectations.

[Anders]

Came across this in an old thread and it resonated with me especially in relation to Betsey's advice:

""Regardless of our marriage problems, it would be a shame to throw away a friendship, you can never have too many friends"

[Anders]

Journal:

Riding a wave of emotions this week. I had a few fun & very interesting encounters with some ladies at work today. They were coming up to talk with me for seemingly random reasons, touching my arm, playing with their hair, etc? I have no intention of pursuing any of them but damn if it didn't feel good.

Then getting home and reading through the threads, I started to feel angry. And I'm realizing just how angry I still am with W. And how I am struggling to forgive her. How I am still carrying a lot of hurt about her decisions and actions. And how I am still looking for honesty in our interactions, questioning her intentions.

I feel I need to do this to truly let go. I cannot even begin to imagine establishing a genuine friendship without that forgiveness. Or perhaps it is for me to let go first then true forgiveness will follow.

For now my DB and growth goals, alongside my timeline, are helping me ride out this wave. But does it ever feel like I am climbing up a steep mountainside right now and wondering what the .... I'm doing here.

[Anders]

Update:

A busy work week last week and then a great weekend of living life (moving on from getting a life).

It felt good to enjoy a summer weekend at the park simply because it was a summer weekend, with the sun at its best and the pleasure of friendship.

I have also been spending a lot of time reading through older stories and threads on the board. I have been storing advice and relevant tips from these onto Evernote for my DB stockpile.

I have also started keeping notes on the things I can do to sustain a great marriage. Be it a new one with W or with someone else. Thinking about how all of this unfolded makes me realize how easy it would be to fall into old patterns. I definitely do not want to live through all of this again if I can help it.

I would like to change my forum name but didn't get approved to do it.

A couple of very brief email exchanges from W and I on finances last week. Technically speaking, our first email correspondence of any sort in three months.

I still have a homework assignment from Underdog that I will post on soon.

[Underdog]

LOL, db you're not being graded.

I have also started keeping notes on the things I can do to sustain a great marriage. Be it a new one with W or with someone else. Thinking about how all of this unfolded makes me realize how easy it would be to fall into old patterns. I definitely do not want to live through all of this again if I can help it.

This tells me that no matter what happens, you're going to make this lesson stick and take all that you've learned with you in your relationships going forward. You're so young, DB. I'm thrilled for you that you are taking this to heart and using what you've learned to do yourself good.

Keep going, because you're doing a great job.

Go you!

Betsey

[Anders]

LOL! You mean I don't get a gold star after all of these soul bearing posts!

This made my day. Thanks Betsey.

Lawyer is recommending a formal separation agreement. I am not sure if I should initiate this, at least not yet. W has not done anything yet to move forward on a separation agreement or divorce. I am taking the approach of leaving it to her to pursue any of the legal actions. I won't try to stop her but I won't make it easier by starting the ball rolling.

Any thoughts on this from those following?

[Underdog]

DB,

Yikes, sorry I haven't been on in a few days... I apologize!

I'm personally a fan of separation agreements. I had one set up shortly after Mr. Wonderful moved out so we both had "rules of engagement" and set the expectations until he could figure stuff out. That turned out to be 2 years. I think we both behaved better actually knowing what the rules were, and knowing we were both protected financially while he was off in limbo.

That way, you'll both know if she books a Caribbean vacation that costs $10K and you're still married, that it's not considered marital debt.

I truly know in our situation it took the pressure of not knowing jack and only kept the true issue on the front burner. Uh, and that would be, "will he come home?" instead of "how is he going to screw me over financially?"

Plus we have a developmentally disabled now D17, so we used it as an agreement to set parenting time. I know that isn't part of your equation, but just want to reiterate that it gave our separation the structure we both needed.

That's my $.02.

The other thing is that she might see you as willing rather than fighting her?

How's it going this week?

Betsey

[Anders]

No need to apologize Betsey. It is fantastic to have your advice and following my unfolding story! Thank you for that.

The other thing is that she might see you as willing rather than fighting her?

That is a good perspective to consider. I have been in the frame of mind that moving forward on the separation agreement would confirm for her that she is doing the right thing ending our M and I would be making it easier for her. We are to talk next week. Gives me a few extra days to think about this.

How's it going this week?

All in all a relatively good week. My mood and energy sync with the sunshine. When the sun is out, I'm at my best and spending lots of time outdoors.

I had a weird Wednesday night. W and I had texted a couple of times that day to confirm when we could talk next on finances. Very business like in tone from both sides (txts initiated by me). I then had a strange dream that is very fuzzy right now. The essence was that I ran into W and she was practically a stranger to me. And I didn't like the feeling of it one bit. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I didn't sleep well the rest of the night.

I was wrapping up the text exchange yesterday morning. I wanted to break the 'business tone'and wished her a good day. The previous day, there were a few hours between her replies. This time, she replied back right away with 'Thanks, you too!'

I am reaching for straws here but still it made me feel good that she felt good, or at least seemed to. Not sure if that makes any sense. Then today, I looked at a picture of W. I have been avoiding doing this for a while now. And I can't believe that we are in the middle of all of this and how far apart we are.