one last chance

[25yearsmlc]

Grocery list item #3. Intimacy. We were sexually active from the second date. I would ask if she's done this or that and she would always say yes. \

I don't mean to quibble b/c this^^^ is just a curious thing to ME. But I've long wondered why people ask anything about their partner's past. I can't think of an instance in which it helped either person in the R. I CAN think of several times it's been a bad idea. Very damaging..

She would tell me how she learned how to perform oral sex to please her boy friends. Nothing we did together was new to her. For me, I had sex once with a girl I knew but not in a relationship. I always felt I had to measure up.

you felt competitive and that's too bad. It's not really about your wife, however. At least not then. That was about your comparative lack of experience and that was on you, not her. Do you see my point? This insecurity of yours was just that, yours.

After W's first affair, I kept thinking about what that OM had done with her.


What did YOU DO differently, after that affair? You, specifically as an individual, and then you two as a couple? IF you simply swept it under the rug, can you see how it's not shocking that it happened again?


She old me about the oral sex and missionary sex on his couch. Almost everyday I would picture these things. My self esteem took a major hit.


Affairs are damaging to our partner's egos. But some of this behavior was a choice that YOU made..."almost everyday".

You need tools for redirecting your thoughts. I suggest also that you watch Amy Cuddy's TED talk about "Faking it til you Become it" and Sean Achor's talk about Positivity. Both were at the TED talks of 2012...and they're about 20 min long. Watch them and give them some thought.

Maybe a good IC can help you with this. Is your therapist solution based or do they hope that you figure out your problems by talking them out? I don't doubt that talk therapy helps many people, but if you are still behaving mostly the same destructive way, it might be time for a new T.


Now I really felt the need to be my best in bed. She recently told me that she felt I needed to prove myself to her in bed... yup.

Why does this^^ matter? I mean, it's not presently relevant, correct? Being intimate isn't a contest; it's expressing love...or at least in a marriage it is. So don't focus on "performance" issues b/c if you have hands, you can manage just fine with an open mind and loving heart. But that time is NOT NOW....

I suggest you let all this^^^ go...it takes up too much space in your head.


Add this to Grocery item #4. Pornography. When I was ten I found my step-fathers stack of Playboys. It was downhill from there. By my teens I was fully engrossed. I figured I could stop when I got married. When I turned 21 a friend brought me to a strip club. Now I was getting really bad but again I thought IO could stop anytime especially now that I had this awesome girlfriend that would do anything in bed. Nope I was wrong. I slowed down when I got married but it was still there. Then the internet became more popular and I was getting into some dark stuff.

interestingly, there's also a youtube video on "Why I gave up Porn" by a handsome young guy who mentions how porn removes seduction and romance and really good sex, and makes it all about "penetration" or worse, subjugation/ mistreatment of women. If you cannot avoid that, I'd seek out a 12 step group b/c it's an insidious force in our world that contributes a great deal to how badly women get treated globally. Inside marriages, I think that type of porn

(not the erotic stuff that some couples enjoy together), is very damaging.



After W's first affair, we went to counseling with a pastor at a new church she started to attend. I never really went to church.

and now?

She went to a catholic church occasionally. Some time during that first year after A#1, I decided to become a Christian. With this decision, I needed to fight my anger and especially my porn addiction. I did better but it's still a fight. The last few years I would still fall if I felt rejected. Better, but not completely healed.

I also asked W do to things she didn't like. One reason was the porn, the other is that I felt that was the only thing none of her other sex partners had done. I always felt guilty but I did it anyway.

are you saying you forced her, or coerced her into doing things she did not like or want to do?

Yup, I blamed myself.

Just so I'm clear, who else would you blame?

During one of our late night/ all night discussions


Avoid ALL late night discussions and NO discussion that lasts "all night" is a productive one.
Just do not engage that way.

she asked my if I though God had given us boys because I would hurt girls if we had them just like someone from her work. I then remembered an uncomfortable feeling I had around a developing young niece. I was almost ready to believe I hurt her too and thus Suicide attempt #2.

So, you mean your self loathing or guilt led you to attempt suicide a 2nd time? After your first suicide attempt what NEW TOOLS did you get that failed to stop another attempt? Why would your wife wonder about you developing unacceptable feelings towards your young niece? And may I assume she was under the age of 16?

See, as a wife, I look to my h in part for strength and honor and sometimes leadership (the feminist in me resists admitting that, and to be clear, I do NOT mean a "boss" when I say "leadership". I mean a strong partner, someone who can provide and protect our family...and when I cannot, I know HE CAN/WILL)

if my h were to attempt suicide, twice, and showed no indication that he was working actively on getting better,

I'd have to leave him as soon as he was stable enough. I would do that to protect our children and myself from someone who ill enough to do self harm.

The odds of turning that self rage into outward rage, while perhaps less than 50%, is still quite substantial. I'd move on to protect the kids...

I say this so you never contemplate suicide threats as manipulation tools, b/c for most of us, they are more than a turn off. They are red flags of danger.


Later I realized I would not have done anything


how did you come to realize this?

but at that late hour I went to a dark area. Yes, I blame myself for this area too.


Not sure what "blame" means here, but who else is responsible for your choices?


I've gotten better over the years that we've been married. I have improved and am still working on things. I admit my faults.


"Admitting faults" is useless if they are not also being worked on. You seem to repeat some destructive behaviors, and then say things like "I did X and I blamed myself for it..." as if it's a grand gesture or meaningful. Or as if there was someone else to blame that you are letting off the hook.

Hey, I don't want to tear you down or even give you a gentle 2 x 4 here.

I'm trying to get you to see that you have a long history of problems, NOT getting a lot better, for a long time...and even now, right after you say "I Admit my faults" you immediately turned your focus back onto your wife's faults/behaviors.

That is NOT YOUR JOB. Her flaws are not your duty and they are not in your "jurisdiction". Pretend she is the state of Iowa and you are the state of South Carolina...you deal with YOUR state laws and let her do her own.

Someday if you two want to join up and become one state, THEN you can work out which rules will be set for you both and you can handle it then. For now, you have a plate full of things that really are and always were, your responsibility...ie, you.


What hurts a lot is that W will not admit any of hers.

why does this^^ "hurt" you, at all? It's not any of your business. Plus, you don't know if she admits the faults to others, but again, it's not in your sandbox or your jurisdiction. Stay in your sandbox.

Do you see why I say that?

She didn't tell me how she felt until the last few months since A#2.
Then, in my opinion, she embellished each area to levels way worse than they ever were.

That is Standard WAS behavior. They revise the marital history AND OR they only remember the bad times.

But in fairness, you two did have some pretty big bad events in your history. I think in time you will come to see how toxic things have been.

She even told me that S#2 was born so she could feel love again. Yes I'm hurting. Yes I'm angry. Though it may not seem it in the last few posts, I am more angry at myself than her.

Can you elaborate?

Even the week after I found about A#2, when she went to talk to two sisters, I was willing to take ALL of the blame for her actions.

what difference would that make to anyone?