Old dog seeks new trick

[Old Dog]

Oh, I hadn't noticed you'd posted a question, I was just rambling, trying to get what was going through my head out.

I'll try and gather my thoughts about it and post a little later. Thanks for dropping though by MrBond.

[Old Dog]

She likened the situation to not maintaining a car adequately, and now it’s broken down: beyond repair she says.

My family (the one I grew up in) have never displayed much loving emotion, our family just seemed to plod on: that seemed tone normal for me.

She says I lack, the passion, initiative, motivation, nurturing, drive and pro-activity that she posses. I am steady, stable, not given to hysterics but I do fly off the handle sometimes, raging and cursing. I inherited this from my father, she saw it in him and abhors it in me. I’m not too proud of it either.

In the past, she was prepared to put up with my easy as she was also deficient in ways and appreciated the loyalty and stability that she never had at home. When we first met, my job took me away for weeks on end several times a year and she would cry and beg me not to go, but I had to, it was my job. She understood, but hated it when I left.

Eventually I quit that job and she started training to be a counsellor. After about a year, she says she stopped because she realised that she would be moving on whilst I wasn’t and we would split. She didn’t tell me this at the time, only recently.

We carried on, bought a house, had kids, moved a couple of times. About 4-5 years ago, we were stuck in a rut. We went to MC. We moved again to get out of the place we were living and decided to stay on our new place until the kids left school.

Going to MC brought up the same lack of input in me. I hadn’t changed. A couple of years ago, she decided that I couldn’t or wasn’t prepared to change and she would have to get out. It has taken her 2 years to actually do it.

I have taken a back seat in the relationship which she was happy to drive in the first place, but now she wants more and it’s too late for me. She is exhausted because all the things that happen to us are because she books it, plans it, arranges it etc. She is also looking after the kids 5 days a week while I work away from home. She say she thinks I’m quite happy doing this and don’t have a thing to worry about in the week, while she is always tired, but needs to carry on for the kids.

Gotta dash now, I’m off to work again, while she returns home after a night out with an old friend discussing who knows what, but my ears are burning.

[MrBond]

"She says I lack, the passion, initiative, motivation, nurturing, drive and pro-activity that she posses."

Is she right?

"I am steady, stable, not given to hysterics but I do fly off the handle sometimes, raging and cursing. I inherited this from my father, she saw it in him and abhors it in me. I’m not too proud of it either."

Don't blame your father. YOU have a choice to do it or not. There are many behaviors that I'm sure you didn't "inherit".

"In the past, she was prepared to put up with my easy as she was also deficient in ways and appreciated the loyalty and stability that she never had at home."

Could you elaborate? And what do you mean she was also "deficient". Was this her word?

"When we first met, my job took me away for weeks on end several times a year and she would cry and beg me not to go, but I had to, it was my job. She understood, but hated it when I left."

When did she stop complaining? That's when your M problem began.

"Eventually I quit that job and she started training to be a counsellor."

What kind of counsellor?

"After about a year, she says she stopped because she realised that she would be moving on whilst I wasn’t and we would split. She didn’t tell me this at the time, only recently."

When did she first think about splitting?

"We carried on, bought a house, had kids, moved a couple of times. About 4-5 years ago, we were stuck in a rut."

WAit, she thought about leaving before all this?

"We went to MC."

You need to elaborate on this. Obviously you two knew something was wrong. What was discussed? How long did you go? What were her complaints? Etc.

"Going to MC brought up the same lack of input in me. I hadn’t changed. A couple of years ago, she decided that I couldn’t or wasn’t prepared to change and she would have to get out. It has taken her 2 years to actually do it."

What did you have to change? Why didn't you change?

"I have taken a back seat in the relationship which she was happy to drive in the first place, but now she wants more and it’s too late for me."

Mindreading. Why didn't you take the reins?

"She is exhausted because all the things that happen to us are because she books it, plans it, arranges it etc."

Why didn't you?

"She is also looking after the kids 5 days a week while I work away from home. She say she thinks I’m quite happy doing this and don’t have a thing to worry about in the week, while she is always tired, but needs to carry on for the kids."

And what did you do to address her problem?

[Old Dog]

"She says I lack, the passion, initiative, motivation, nurturing, drive and pro-activity that she posses."

Is she right?

To a certain extent, yes. Not as much as she does, but then again it does and has existed.

"I am steady, stable, not given to hysterics but I do fly off the handle sometimes, raging and cursing. I inherited this from my father, she saw it in him and abhors it in me. I’m not too proud of it either."

Don't blame your father. YOU have a choice to do it or not. There are many behaviors that I'm sure you didn't "inherit".

W brought this up actually, as something I'm not to pass onto our kids. It doesn't happen often and it's never directed at people, but I accept it wouod be scary and is pretty stupid.

"In the past, she was prepared to put up with me as she was also deficient in ways and appreciated the loyalty and stability that she never had at home."

Could you elaborate? And what do you mean she was also "deficient". Was this her word?

Deficient was my word. Her elder bother was the apple of her mother's eye. He could do no wrong, passed all his exams, got into Cambridge. It caused major ructions between her parents. W & her S could never live up to her expectations. All her mother's the love went to her brother.

"When we first met, my job took me away for weeks on end several times a year and she would cry and beg me not to go, but I had to, it was my job. She understood, but hated it when I left."

When did she stop complaining? That's when your M problem began.

I don't know, it must be around 18 years ago now. I quit in 1996. After a while I think she reconciled that I wasn't leaving her and I would be back.

"Eventually I quit that job and she started training to be a counsellor."

What kind of counsellor?

Therapy counselling. I don't know the branch. It was part time while she was working.

"After about a year, she says she stopped because she realised that she would be moving on whilst I wasn’t and we would split. She didn’t tell me this at the time, only recently."

When did she first think about splitting?

In the very first years. I'd been dumped, was in a state of depression, went to TA counselling and wasn't sure whether I wanted another relationship. On our first date, apparently I'd shaved my head! I don't recall it was the first date, but she remembers. She did well to even continue.

"We carried on, bought a house, had kids, moved a couple of times. About 4-5 years ago, we were stuck in a rut."

WAit, she thought about leaving before all this?

Yes, because I'm not in touch with my emotions. And am not pro-active. She said 'one day this will not be enough'.

"We went to MC."

You need to elaborate on this. Obviously you two knew something was wrong. What was discussed? How long did you go? What were her complaints? Etc.

Same problem. Only a couple of months. I felt, in fact we both felt it didn't too much good. I knew my proble, but had no idea how to fix it. Just taking about it is just talk.

"Going to MC brought up the same lack of input in me. I hadn’t changed. A couple of years ago, she decided that I couldn’t or wasn’t prepared to change and she would have to get out. It has taken her 2 years to actually do it."

What did you have to change? Why didn't you change?

She's only just told me she'd been thinking about this in the past 3 weeks. She hadn't said I have to change, just the 'one day this won't be enough' line. I didn't change because I didn't know what I wasn't doing was so damaging. And because I think I have some dependent personality traits. I've only just become aware of this reading up about relationships and behaviours. I can identify with some of the self inflicted traits and they ring true with waht she says. Laziness as well.

"I have taken a back seat in the relationship which she was happy to drive in the first place, but now she wants more and it’s too late for me."

Mindreading. Why didn't you take the reins?

Not mindreading. Dependent personality. I'm not trying to shift the blame onto some disorder here. It's entirely my fault. I could have and should have but I didn't. I only have myself to blame.

"She is exhausted because all the things that happen to us are because she books it, plans it, arranges it etc."

Why didn't you?

Same as above. I said to her last week, I'd always wanted to do/plan things together. She said it suited her for most of the time as she could do what she wanted to do and I was quite happy with whatever arrangements she made.

"She is also looking after the kids 5 days a week while I work away from home. She says she thinks I’m quite happy doing this and don’t have a thing to worry about in the week, while she is always tired, but needs to carry on for the kids."

And what did you do to address her problem?

I help around the house at weekends: do the washing, make some meals, fix stuff etc which she said she appreciated. But not enough I suppose. She also said she felt guilty if she went to see a friend for the day, when I get so little time at home.

[/quote]

I thought of something else she said whenshe dropped the bomb. She showed me a website by Gerald Rogers, a motivational speaker, which listed 20 thins he wished he'd known before his marriage split after 16 years. They're all give the girl some flowers and say I love you every day things. I have always found it hard to do that. My dad didn't do that, I didn't have role model to show me. And now ... I feel so sad. Sad for her becuase I couldn't be the person she needed and for me because, well for the same reason. It just doesn't occur to me. I am not the romantic type.

[Old Dog]

On a slightly more positive note - although I've got a damp keyboard now - my DB book arrived. I'm thinking of calling in sick tomorrow and just reading it.

[MrBond]

Okay, now what I'm going to say may be a bit harsh, but it's what I see so far.

First of all, I don't think you want to save your M. Here's why....

As long as you've been together, it seems as if you've dismissed all of your W's needs or didn't think them important to you. Basically, you've been doing it for 2 reasons:

1) You refuse to take responsibility for your actions.
You blame it on your father, or your upbringing or codependency, etc. But you spend more time coming up with excuses than you actually spend time on actually changing your behaviors. It could have been just as easy as writing down a list or putting it in your 'To Do' list to "say I love you to my W". But instead you tried to find fault in your W rather than looking at yourself. And you're still doing it.

2) You mindread alot and still depend on your W to take charge.
When you went to counseling, and even before, she explicitly said what was wrong with the M. But you say that "both" of you didn't think it worked when what really happened was that you didn't want to change and expected your W to change her attitude.

3) To this day she gives you talks, examples, websites (and yes I did read Gerald Rogers before I read your sitch) and make it sound like it's news to you. That you're not the "romantic type". She doesn't expect you to lavish her with attention 24/7, but what she does want is SOME effort on your part. You probably would do something for a week or two after she brings something up and then went right back to ignoring her. I mean you don't even know what branch of therapy she was learning. Really? She really didn't matter to you so much that you couldn't just ask?

So my suggestion would be to file for divorce, look for someone who is more like a mother to you. Who will take care of you and plan things unconditionally and who doesn't care if you do anything romantic for them. Is that what you want?

[Old Dog]

OK, here's what I think about what you say.

1. Yes, you're right I haven't taken responsibility for so many things for so many years. And it's not just M. However I don't think I try to find fault with W, I know it's me. And I don't really blame it on my father either.

I do know that when I was 13, we moved to a place I loathed and completely withrew into my shell. Never made friends, didn't go out. Didn't do any homework. Basically just waited for someone to notice how unhappy I was - and no-one did. That 'surviavl technique' has not served me well. It didn't work then, and it doesn't work now.

I'm not looking for excuses, I just don't seem to be able to take responsibilty. Call it fear of failure, don't rock the boat, don't try to fix it if it's working (for now).

2. I don't usually mind read. Maybe I'm too self-centred. As above, I know it's my fault. I honestly didn't expect W to change her attitude I just hoped that as long as we were chugging along, we'd be all right.

3. Arg that's hard ro read, but yes, you'e right. But she does matter to me. And not because I want her to be 'mother'.

In the past coupe of weeks, I have learnt so much more about myself. I feel as though I have grown up a bit.

As I said previously. It's all my fault for not working on M. My career such as it is, has also suffered. The dependent personality traits I read about - I don't know how this didn't come up in previous therapy - are painful to read, as is your last sentence.

I do really want to be an adult and shake off this inability to act malaise. Maybe it is too late with W, but I can see this happening again if I don't do anything.

I have never been happy in myself because of this and it has made me miserable and fearful for too long. I do want to save my M and change my life. Live my life and hopefully be with W before it's too late.

[MrBond]

"I do really want to be an adult and shake off this inability to act malaise. Maybe it is too late with W, but I can see this happening again if I don't do anything."

You say it's an "inability" to act malaise. I call it being lazy. It doesn't matter what you do. What matters is that you actually DO something. You say that you like DB because it gives you a plan. If you go back through your posts, you said your W told you many times what you could do or should be doing. You just chose not to.

When you have a chance, look up the posts of a person named Lucky Luke. I think the two of you have alot in common.

[Old Dog]

I am lazy I know, and I stress again I'm not looking for excuses here, but I do think there may be something else. Some sort of programming. This probably sounds like classic excuse making: right on script.

I'm trying my best to look at myself objectively. Goodness knows it's hard and I don't like what I see. I'm not wallowing in misery like I would have done and have before looking for sympathy. I'm fed up with that life.

Thanks for your input MrBond. I will look up Lucky Luke when I get home.

[claire7]

Odsnt: I don't recall if you mentioned depression as an issue of yours? A symptom is often a lack of motivation. This can be a symptom of anxiety, too (I often felt completely overwhelmed by tasks such as making plans to go to dinner, much less a whole vacation!). Solutions-based therapy can help you get unstuck.

You have to work on yourself before you can have any hope of working on your M.