Almost home..

[mdu]

Thinking about my core dealbreakers as Starsky suggested and one I am struggling with. I realize that one of my core values is that M is for life, for better or worse, in good times and in bad. We are family and therefore you stick together and work it out no matter what. The thing that probably upsets me the most with this whole sitch is not necessarily that H had an A but his ongoing ambivalence around whether he wants to do the work to fix the M. He will state he wants to stay together but then his actions consistently fall short. Which obviously says something about his true level of commitment. Given this is such a core value for me I wonder how I can ever be happy in a M with someone who does not seem to have the same value around the M commitment? I don't think I can.

I don't want to be with someone who has the attitude of "we'll see how it goes" I want to be with someone who thinks "M is for life, we do whatever it takes to work it out" I truly believe with this attitude it WILL work but with the "we'll see" attitude we're setting ourselves up for failure. Can I realistically have a dealbreaker around what I feel *his* attitude ought to be? Is that controlling?

[Starsky309]

It's controlling if you say "You need to believe 'X'."


It's NOT controlling to say "I cannot be married to a man who believes 'X'." That is a BOUNDARY.

One is about trying to control the other person. The other is all about YOU, and what YOU can abide. Remember my post from Jayne about the circles?


Starsky

[Train]

mdu,

You are getting places with these questions.

Keep living your way into the answers.

(And FWIW, I think I'm gonna change my signature to: "I agree with Starsky.")

Keep digging, mdu.

[mdu]

Thx Starsky & Train, that helps clarify! I think I'm on the right track. I wrote a letter, which I'm NOT sending at this time, but it helps clarify my thoughts and prepare me if the topic comes up again. Does this sound like a boundary the way it is written?


"Dear H,

I have been thinking a lot about some of our latest discussions and felt it was important to share some of my latest insights so we can both make honestly informed decisions going forward.

The affair is obviously terribly upsetting but almost worse has been your lack of commitment to our marriage. When we married my belief is we became family and that means we always stick together and do whatever it takes to work it out. I have come to the conclusion that it’s not possible for me to be happy with someone who does not hold this same core belief.

With that, I have thought a lot about in house separation and realize I can’t have you back in this house in any way, shape or form until you are 100% recommitted to this marriage and the work required to repair it. An ambivalent, “we’ll see how it goes” attitude is not acceptable. I believe this type of attitude would set us up for failure and inevitably send us all on another rollercoaster of reconciliation/separation. I think it goes without saying this is not fair to me, our children or anyone else affected by this.

Conversely, I feel confident that if we both have a strong attitude of “we’ll do whatever it takes to make this marriage and family happy” together we can make it happen. I think I have been clear that I am motivated to do my part but obviously can’t do it alone.

No matter what you feel, I hope you will respect that we both deserve complete honesty so we can act and make the best possible decisions for ourselves and the kids with the most accurate information possible.

Love, MDU"

[Wonka]

MDU,

I can see why you're feeling conflicted with advice here with vets and your DB Coach. What I've learned is that sometimes vets and DB Coaches can get things wrong. It is up to you to distill the information and take what you feel works best for your sitch. I don't necessarily always agree with what DB coaches say here.

There's also nothing wrong with saying to him, lovingly: "I'm sorry, but I'm just not there yet. Considering all that's happened, this isn't going to be easy, and it's going to take awhile for me to fully trust you. I hope you can understand that, and be patient with me. I'm trying."

I think this is a very good time to use this line on H the next time he asks what's the matter. This opening line hopefully will signal to H that you have the upper hand in this process and that he needs to work really hard to earn your trust back over time.

Look....there are no grand gestures in the reconciliation process.

Also, I'm sure he's a little befuddled as to what more I'm expecting at this point. He's apologized multiple times, he's said he does not want us to D multiple times, the other night he said he would do 'whatever it takes' to earn back my trust. While some really, really grand gesture would b nice I'm not sure what else I should realistically expect

This isn't The Notebook movie. There are tremendous positive baby steps here. He's texting you, sending you pictures, updating you on stuff, and attending the kids' games. Those are the ACTIONS of someone who's wanting to spend time with you and his family. That's big. Focus on those stuff.

Unless you want to be rolling on a beach engaged in a passionate kiss with H with the waves rolling over you right now like Deborah Kerr and Burt Lancaster. Heh?!

I wouldn't lay down my boundaries at this stage because you are in the dancing pre-piecing stage. To lay out your boundaries to H would spook him. Now isn't the time to put down your non-negotiables because, based on what you post here, your H is definitely watching you and taking his cues from you. He is very tentative to me and is not yet feeling secure that you've completely accepted him. H knows this because of your hot/cold responses to him.

You do have a great deal of influence on your choice of words, general demeanor, and attitude during your interactions with. Yes, it does feel like a chess game at this stage because you are NOT YET comfortable in your own skin with H. Think about it.

You two are insecure at this stage and it shows in the pair of you showing some hot/cold behaviors. You would want to be mindful of this dance.

As for your letter, it comes close as preachy and scolding. I'd re-write it so it comes from a place of forgiveness and finding ways to move forward together that is solution-oriented.

Do this letter for your own good. I wouldn't send it to H at all. You can use parts of the letter in dropping some tidbits of comments as appropriate.

That is unless H is all in and then you can lay out the boundary. Not at this stage at all for it is very, very fragile.

[mdu]

Thx Wonka! Awesome advice and feedback. Especially about the letter. I can tell you for certain that when I get preachy with H it turns him 100% off. I will continue to work on it to help get my head in the right place.

I think you're right on the money that we're both insecure right now. Here's where it's so important that I focus on myself, GAL and continue to move forward as if H and I will be separated for a while. I find when there are positive signs I start getting my hopes way up and start putting my life on hold, expecting he'll be back any minute. I need to get myself back to reality and keep making plans assuming he will continue to be gone. It's still a struggle but I like to think I'm making improvements here, at least I recognized this within just a day or two this time :-)

And funny but now all of a sudden H is txting me again, lots of cute smiley's and chitchat again. It's like he *knows* precisely when I'm getting my chit together and back he comes..

[Train]

That's the pre-piecing dance, mdu.

When you are focused on yourself, you are "accidentally" showing confidence in yourself. And that feeling helps *YOUR* PMA. And your H is responding to THAT. It is attractive to him. OTOH, when you start focusing too much on your situation and you start to let the details get to you ... or when your H isn't moving at your pace ... you start to feel negative. And THAT is what he will respond to.

You've got it exactly right, IMO. Keep focusing on yourself. YOU are what's drawing him back. Fight those insecurities as much and as often as possible.

Then, when your H shows *through his actions* that he's ready to be back in, you'll be able to share and discuss your non-negotiables.

[GoatGal]

I'm with Wonka and Train here.

Asking for "100% commitment" from your H now is probably going to be overwhelming and a deal-breaker for him..

I'm looking at the same scenario myself, so I'm trying to figure this out too!

I decided which things I could live with, and which things I couldn't.

I realized that what he was/is doing is a lot easier to tolerate, and stay "cool" about, if we are living separately, and they weren't shoved under my nose day after day.
(Living with someone who is crossing the days off the calendar until he can be "rid" of me is intolerable. Likewise someone who feels they have to keep secrets, or is trying to pretend he's single, even in his mind...etc.)

For him to live here, specific things would have to change.

But for me, it is not a prerequisite that he is 100% ready to commit completely "til death do us part."
Heck--I'M not even ready to do that!
I am very hesitant at this point to see how he handles himself.

It would be enough for him to pull the D off the table, go transparent with calls/ whereabouts, see how we get along... NO other people, NO porn (!), being accountable, like any family member would be.
If he could identify and decide to work on his "issues" even better.

He wouldn't have to be my "H" yet, or ever.

But he would have to be there, be solid, be good and decent.

Anything less than this would be hazardous to my emotional and physical well-being, and since that is my most important asset right now, I must protect it at all costs.

If he's not ready to do that yet, that's fine. He can go live elsewhere.
I will have my peace... better that he lives somewhere else than he moves back and jerks me around and drives me back to the bad place I was a few months ago. I have gained too much ground to allow that to happen at this point.

That said, I suspect that my H is nowhere NEAR being ready to even give this much to me.

And that's fine. He can take his sweet time about it. Or not.

So---I don't know if this applies to you, but perhaps it does.

Like Starsky said, it's not controlling if you state your boundaries based on
WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU.
What you should care about most is what is good for you and your family.
He is LAST on that list.

Period. He can take it or leave it.

And that's my two cents.

---GG

[mdu]

Thx GG, good food for thought!

[mdu]

New developments nearly every day now.

Last night H wanted to talk about the R. First, he immediately apologized for being off the past day or so. He said that he was reacting to me seeming to cool off. He said that he was scared of what I might be thinking and it reminded him of our disconnection/distance pre-A. He said he understood that he is going to have to be able to tolerate days like that from me, especially given what he has done and he would make sure to work on talking to me in the future rather than pulling away.

Then he said he wanted to come home. I told him that he has done a lot of damage and has quite a mess to clean up. He cried and said that he knew it and would do whatever it takes. I told him that he can’t come home unless he is 100% committed to the marriage and would do whatever it takes to make things better. It’s not fair to me and especially not fair to the kids to keep going back and forth, I won’t tolerate it again. He cried some more and said he knew and he would. He said that there is no excuse for the A but that he’s scared we will slide back into old habits and the M would become unhappy for him again. I validated and told him I would do my part to ensure that does not happen but that ultimately we BOTH have to be ‘in it to win it’. He agreed. We talked about MCing, we had a MC originally when this all came out, not sure if we will go back to him or find someone else. We are going to do some research.

I ended the convo saying that I thought we probably needed a bit more time apart and to think about things, that we shouldn’t rush anything.

So that’s the latest.