Here, in my first post in this thread, the last sentence:
"At the end, we were in the car and just ended up both bawling. He said he was so sorry for what he did. He said he loved me and wants us to stay married. He wants to come home but is confused and scared we can't get through this. I cried and expressed how hurt I was. I got angry a few times but was able to catch it and dial back quickly so did OK on that front (but definitely still room for improvement). I started to tell him some of what I am going through and what I'd need from him to feel safe. He said he understood and would do whatever it takes."
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
I must have missed that. In that case, now is the time I would be laying out my non-negotiable deal breakers. Or at least have them ready for the next time he says this.
Yeah, mdu. The phase you're in right now can be likened to walking on a tight rope. It's a balancing act. A very delicate one. I may be one of a few here who doesn't think it's "make or break," though.
I'll echo what the others are saying: if your H wants back in, he can and will find his way there.
I also hear Starsky's concern about it appearing YOU are pursuing when your H should be, especially considering he's the one who cheated and destroyed your family. I did the SAME thing (pursuing my cheating H instead of the other way around). And Starsky called me out on it, too. Let me be real: It sometimes feels we are playing one huge chess game when we are trying to "woo" our spouses back ("Maybe I should go dark!" "Maybe I should go dim!" "Uh oh. That didn't work! Maybe I should doll up a little and wear a different perfume!") But (and this is to another point Starsky made): this isn't a game. And I can promise you that once your H is back, there will be days when you're definitely not going to feel like the cheery, light-hearted, flirty person you're having to be with each and every interaction right now.
Here's what I'm trying to say: keep doing what works now. But if your H changes his demeanor so suddenly in response to you having a very normal change in demeanor - and if he doesn't think *immediately* that your change in demeanor may just have something to do with the fact that HE has rocked YOUR world - then, yes, I'd have to question if he's ready for the HARD work that lies immediately ahead. Contrary to how things have been for him the past little while (with freedoms AND a W who has fought for him), the process of healing IS NOT all flirty and fun and sunshine, unicorns and rainbows.
Sorry if that comes off as snarky; I'm living it right now, and it worries me a little that your H is saying he will do "anything it takes" ... except, apparently, keeping a positive attitude when you're not easy-going and flirty and pursuing him??
I think we all have played our parts in the break-down of our marriages. But considering we were/are the "victims," we certainly shouldn't be on eggshells and constantly making sure we are being pleasant and pleasing. Sometimes I feel we put our brains in full-on "DB Mode," and if we aren't really careful, we can begin to turn ourselves into doormats and spouse-pleasers.
Remember the changes you're making in your life are about you. They're not about winning over your H. You will not be able to maintain "superficial" changes once he's back and you're dealing with the real serious issues. You're probably pretty close to perfect but I don't think anyone can be perfect 100% of the time.
Hang in there! You're doing great!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I married to a fearful man, as it turns out. Passive, will not make the first move unless he is reasonably sure of a good outcome.
I doubt this man will ever pursue or win me back if he feels there are obstacles.
Ugh. I just realized how awful that sounds. But I think it's true.
----GG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
Thx for all the input. I need help with reality checking. So here's precisely what has happened today.
*H txtd me first thing in the morning saying good morning and he hoped I had a good nights sleep. I never replied. In part bc I was pulling back a bit but I did also get really distracted with the kids.
*Went to D's t-ball game. I was not as warm as usual but certainly still pleasant. H seemed to mirror me, a little cool but polite.
*Bolted out of D's game to do some things at home before S's game. H came to the house at the same time to pick up a few things. H immediately came upstairs and asked me "what's the matter?" I said "nothing, I'm just in a rush to get some things done before S's game" He gave me a look that he clearly did not buy it.
*At S's game I continued to be pleasant but not terribly warm. H was similar. Left the game feeling a bit of a chill between us.
*H took S to cub scout event. I went to do something with D and a friend. H txtd me a pic of S, he lost a tooth. We txtd a bit about toothfairy and S getting a haircut but I would definitely say txts were cooler than recently. Usually there are lots of nice comments and smiley's. None today.
So...am I reading too much into this? I am feeling a bit troubled that he could so easily turn cool, seemingly in reaction to my coolish mood? As others have said is this a sign that he's really NOT up to reconciling as he claimed just the other day? Or is this just nothing more than an off day for us? Ugh...this sux!
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
mdu---You just described a core issue in my marriage. Totally.
It's (not "hot" but) lukewarm, ice cold, and everything in between.
You will drive yourself nuts trying to figure out every little interaction.
I know from what I've read about your sitch that our Hs are similar; in that they're not exactly the "go-get 'em!" type in relationships.
So it's a bit harder for us, I think. We have to walk a much sharper edge.
When I pull back too much, my H "seems" to take this as rejection, and since he has already stated he feels like a total jerk, that doesn't make him warm to me at all.
On the other hand, if I go the least bit overboard with my friendly attitude, that can backfire as well.
So for me, at least, it's a matter of giving support, being there, being responsive, without asking anything in return. No expectations.
I am appreciative, but I let him know I am handling things just fine on my own. (And if not, I can find additional "help". Preferably young, good looking, and shirtless.) But I definitely DO NOT RUB THIS IN!
Truth:
From our first kiss, back when we first met almost 30 years ago, he was tentative. I said (wanting more!) "Ohhh... you can do better than THAT!" (flirtatiously)
In his mind? I think he believed I was judging him. I look back on that moment often these days. We've even talked about it. How he had "reasons" why he reacted the way he did (backing off, very put off), but they really didn't hold water for a man who supposedly wanted a woman the way he supposedly wanted a 25 year old Goat Gal with no baggage and a blue mohawk!)
It was a serious "fear of rejection" thing. This was a turn off to me, to be honest. But he had so many other good qualities.... which are now still 50% MIA.
Back to the first kiss: Another man might have taken my "you can do better!" statement as an invitation, a challenge, an opening, a "Go FOR IT!" sign.
My husband? Took it as criticism.
And looking back that set the stage for all that has followed.
Honestly now I don't know whether I even want to wait around to see if he can ever be what I need him to be.
I am a very strong, adaptable woman. He is a weak, passive, confused man with a LOT of baggage, who is not willing to take advantage of the resources he has available to try to undo some of the damage he has done. He would rather run. I can't respect that decision.
As I've read: "The 'high conflict avoiders' are the type most likely to end up in divorce court." I have no doubt that's true.
My H's coping skills are limited: Lie, manipulate, blame, deflect, confuse, play the victim, withhold information, keep secrets, get angry, bully, get passive aggressive.
All this if he feels cornered and he certainly feels cornered now. This situation is really pushing the envelope for him.
He always used to be enough, more than enough, for me.
Now, with the betrayal and the lies and the "I don't know if I LOVE you anymore" statements, I have to wonder.
It would take MORE than he was able to give me originally to make something new out of this mess. I'm not sure he's up to it.
Sad. But you can't sugar-coat the truth.
I'm sorry if this seems like a hi-jack of your thread; it's just food for thought, is all.
Keep hanging in, mdu!
---GG
PS: What does "mdu" mean, anyway?
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
It could be because he's starting to process the pain he has caused your family.
It could be because he got his penis caught in his zipper this morning.
We all have down days and days when it seems we take two steps back. All I would say is if his mood is THAT dependent on yours when y'all haven't even started the hard work - and he hasn't even seen the pain you're feeling that he caused - I'd walk lightly. Keep things light and warm when he initiates contact for now. Just as you've been doing.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Ok, little lightbulb moment here. Clearly I am focusing WAY too much on H. I need to step back and refocus on ME and stop worrying about and analyzing his every move. And whatever happens with him (or not), happens..
So here's my plan to get myself back to where I belong: *make sure to get a good nights sleep (with a sleep aid if needed) *get up very early tomorrow and go running *dress nicely so I can feel good about how I look *tidy up the house, it's a disaster! *get through the mountain of laundry *food shop, cook something good and healthy for dinner *work on anger management course *do something fun with the kids, play a game *read meditation book *avoid alcohol, it's fun for a bit but ultimately makes me feel crappy! *watch an old episode of Big Love *go through work email *make arrangements to volunteer at RMH again *book moonlight canoe trip
So important that I make myself plough through these things tomorrow. Otherwise I will ruminate and get myself all wound up and overly focused on H again. Tomorrow it's all about me, me, ME!
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Starting off my day well, sticking to my plan so far, got up early, ran on the treadmill, showered and got myself looking good ;-) H came by to drop off S after their overnight cub scout event. He brought us donuts. We had a pleasant chat.
I see very clearly now that I've obviously attached a ton of expectation to our discussion on Thursday night. And I need to get over it and chill. It's all well and good that he's declaring he wants to earn back my trust after a very fun date but that still doesn't demonstrate that he's truly ready to be in it to win it.
I'm trying to remind myself (AGAIN!) that time is of the essence. That if I don't give it time there's a good chance I will push us along into something that he's not really ready for and it will all blow up again. And, more importantly, I will not be really ready either. I need to continue to work on my own changes and get myself on more solid footing.
Although I know that trying to impose a timeline is bad I do have one major struggle on this front. My stepson is getting married in early October. I keep thinking that if H and I aren't seriously on the road to reconciliation by then and at the wedding we're still separated (or even worse, I am not invited at all), that would be really tough to recover from. It would be so horribly painful to be at a 'family' event but completely on the fringes or excluded entirely. I'm not sure I could get over that. So while I know I need to give it time I do feel like I have this 'deadline' looming. Anyone with thoughts how to deal with this?
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Let me be real: It sometimes feels we are playing one huge chess game when we are trying to "woo" our spouses back ("Maybe I should go dark!" "Maybe I should go dim!" "Uh oh. That didn't work! Maybe I should doll up a little and wear a different perfume!") But (and this is to another point Starsky made): this isn't a game. And I can promise you that once your H is back, there will be days when you're definitely not going to feel like the cheery, light-hearted, flirty person you're having to be with each and every interaction right now. 