Roller coaster and then some

[ForeverYoung]

I'm glad you had a good time on vacation today, daring. Great job! Not everyone in your position would be able to do that. Keep it up.

Also brought up again how supportive I have been and how much he appreciates it though he doesn't know why I am.

"Because I know you're going through a difficult time and I want you to know I'm here for you" <<<worked for me. Monitor results and continue to adjust as you go.

Those things are nice to hear. I see more and more glimpses of the man I know. He also seems to be thinking through some things more reasonably.

Cadet likes to tell me (and all of us) that things will get worse before they get better. I've always cursed him for this, but it is often true. My stance? I don't care. I want and need all the positiveness NOW. If things get worse, I'll regroup and deal with it then.

There's a lot to be said about the power of a positive mental attitude. It's also ATTRACTIVE.

I know I need to be patient- I just so wish I could have an answer one way or another.

H doesn't have an answer, and likely won't for a while. Look for answers in you.

[daring]

I'm frustrated with myself today. Yet I saw some positives and I also know PMA drops right before a new level of detachment- so bring it on!!

Started off my day in a funk- just feeling sad, nothing specific that I could point to. ( other than maybe being on vacation with my H and kids without down time to regroup my emotions). Things have been fine between us- like being on vacation with a friend. Though I've noticed a few touches, hair ruffles etc as we are talking or walking around. He has also been flirting with me quite a bit.

Hung out at beach as a family and had fun. H made a joke about bathing suit pic I took being used as my dating profile pic. S16 laughed. That hit me wrong.
He apologized as I didn't hide my feelings quick enough.
Then later asked if I was ok, I said I'm having an off day. He said I can tell- did I do anything. I told him no I just started off like that for some reason.
I kept trying to work on my PMA throughout the day but it just wasn't working. He caught me crying a couple if different times.
At different times he hugged me, said he was sorry I was having a bad day, had concerned/compassionate looks in his face and "checked in" on how I was doing.
Sometimes he seemed confused or surprised by my hurt but in a way that was caring not annoyed. Being around his sister tonight was hard as she is the one getting married the end if the week. He kept saying he wanted to make sure I was as comfortable as possible in every situation. I appreciated that- and as hard as it is I will be there for all the interactions as his family wants me there and I'm close to them all.

So I'm frustrated that I didn't hide my hurt. But on the flip side he seemed to move toward me some. Seemed to think about things and was very kind and caring.
I'm still working on me, still moving forward as if he's not coming back, but some vulnerability showed today. I'm trying to honor my feelings and his decisions while spending almost all day every day together on this vacation.
Whew this is tough. Hope I didn't backslide too much today!

[Matt165]

Hi daring,
Sounds to me that you are doing well. Your H sounds like he may be coming around but just be careful and keep your expectations down. I had a weekend with my W and kids last summer like you are having. It all seemed to go so well but once we got back, things started to go back and now she has filed. Of course this was before I found DB and you have the knowledge to keep things on track that I didn't. Good luck and we are rooting for you!

[daring]

Well I wrote a really long post yesterday and lost it somehow.
Looking for some input, thoughts, veteran observations....

Went to theme park yesterday- had lots of fun again! H was reaching out even more than before. Here is my journaling from yesterday....

Weird day- lots of touches ( sweet and sexual in a playful way) major flirting and innuendos ( reminded me of when he was 16 when we met....), paying attention to me, watching when he thought I didn't notice, hugs and thank you for coming on vacation with everyone even though he knows it's hard. At one point was talking about dating, I got upset ( I've already told him that's something I don't want to think about right now but he keeps bringing it up) and he said it's going to happen eventually so he thought we should talk about it. I explained that I'm still grieving and it's like someone dying- I'm not at point of thinking of replacing that person. Said wow, told me I deserved so much better and hugged me. Said I look beautiful.
Then in car brought up FB and how his friend told him others would de friend us based on who they want to support. He thought that wouldn't happen. I thought it would. Then he noticed I was upset- said I should just tell him to shut up! I said I just prefer not to focus on loss and stay on the positive.

Reconnection? Acceptance? I'm so confused. Making decisions based on what's best for me...

It's like he tests the waters a little, tries to get close then runs back away by saying something that makes it seem like this is permanent. I behave as if it's permanent too but still interact playfully. I'm not willing to be intimate right now b/c I think that would adversely impact my PMA by sucking me back in.

This morning he called me babe and then said I guess I have to stop saying that, your boyfriend won't like it. I said you need to stop saying anything about a boyfriend.....

Ok bring on the comments, advice, observations please. Trying to keep my expectations at zero but he's making it quite hard!

[Matt165]

Hi daring,
From what I've read here and other places about the stages of MLC, it seems to me he is testing to see if it is safe for him to open up to you. He's starting to see how his actions have hurt you and wants to know if you really don't just hate him for what he's done/doing or if you truly still do care about him. He may be wondering if it really was the right thing to do leaving his M and wants to see if you are going to heap all this blame on him. He probably still thinks what he is doing is OK as it's what he feels he needs to do for himself and wants to see if you will lay a guilt trip on him. If you do, he will run back into the tunnel from what I've read.

Sounds like you are doing OK. You aren't telling him that you think what he did was "wrong", just that it causes you pain. I think the worst thing you can do at this time is tell him how wrong you think he was or how awful he is for doing what he is.

I would be careful about how much hurt you show as that can cause them to feel pressure. Just that you are there and ready and willing to make an attempt at making the M work IF/when HE is READY. No judgement. I also agree that ML is off the table for now. I think that would send the wrong message but that is up to you.

None of this is from my own experience. Just what I've read and I am by no means an expert. There are some threads on here from exMLCers that talk about how they felt coming out and what their S's did that made them more comfortable. Look for those as they have been there. Good luck, daring. I'm hoping for the best outcome for you!

[daring]

Hi Matt- thanks for your perspective- from what I've read I think many of the same things you do but when hoping for a positive outcome I know I may be skewing my view of things.

Trying hard not to show pain but without any down time away right now it's been hard. Interestingly though- he moves toward me if I show some bug it's not overwhelming. Almost like he wants take care of me. And that's a bit of a 180 for me to accept that as I can tend towards the strong " I don't need anyone" behavior.

It's interesting that I'm actually not upset at him for doing what he did. Our marriage was in a rough place, even before his MLC started. We had gotten into a bad cycle of negativity and there were a lot of issues he had never addressed from childhood that I always felt might bite him. I had also slipped into some bad patterns and re- examining where I am has been very good for me.

What I will be disappointed by though, is if this doesn't ultimately result in us back together and stronger. But I know I'm not in control of that outcome.

Thanks again for weighing in.

[ForeverYoung]

Good job on having some fun on vacation together. I know from firsthand experience how stressful that can be. But it can get much easier as time goes on. It has for my wife and I.

It sounds like H still cares for you, and as such, he’s harboring guilt for leaving you. That’s his thing to deal with, just make sure you don’t feed into it… Guilt is no way to keep a marriage together or build a new and better one. He wants to know you’ll be ok. Your job is to BE ok! Not for him, but for you. Remember, this makes you more attractive. I know it’s tough, but you can do it. You ARE doing it! It will get easier with time.

As for the boyfriend / dating talk, I suggest you set a boundary regarding this. Next time he makes one of these comments tell him very nicely that you do not wish to hear of these things. Allow him to correct the behavior on his own. But if he doesn’t you’ll need to set up some type of consequence, maybe like end the conversation and leave the room.

[daring]

I like the way if dealing with the boundary FY- going to work on that.

Trying so hard but ahhhhhh we have both lost our minds! Today in car he was in phone with coworker who is also our neighbor and close friend and former EA ( they both realized they were putting too much time into the friendship and backed off but it's still hard for me sometimes). Anyway she called back with a quick work question and he answered " miss me already?" To be fair his personality is of the sort he would do that with anyone, but it still bothers me and I couldn't hide it. Hate that! He said sorry, that he doesn't like hurting me, even though he knows there is a long list of things that he is doing that qualify.
I said you don't have to apologize, it's my issue to deal with and work through.

So he tousled my hair, rubbed my leg, grabbed my hand for a few seconds and was playfully teasing all throughout the rest of the car ride. When parking he commented that I looked nice, and my v neck shirt was distracting- haha! When walking upstairs he held on to my rear to help me up the stairs ( an old playful thing he's always done with me).
Then when we got to where we were going he pulled me aside and looked in my eyes and said he's sorry for adding any upset. I said it's really my issue- he said is there anything you need or want from me that would help? I told him I don't think I can ask for that right now given where he's at. He said what is it? I said well I want the relationship. He said we have "A" relationship. I said yes we do. The he asked if I wanted him to leave me alone. I said no I'll let you know if you're upsetting me or going too far. Then he just kept looking into my eyes ain silence and I could see lots of emotion. Then he turned to walk away. I seriously thought he might try to kiss me.

So aside from all the crazy mixed messages I'm getting, I know pretty soon I will have to make a decision on how far I'm comfortable with the physical stuff. His LL is physical touch, so I do think this is his way of reaching out some. That said I'm not comfortable going too far without more of an emotional component ( it doesn't have to be I'm moving home and we will love happily ever after- I know he still has lots of work to do. But it can't be I'm moving forward with the divorce but I still want to sleep with you).
I'm not sure how to do this, however, as previously I pushed away his advances and playfulness quite a bit and he felt that as rejection. I want to be clear that it's not that I'm not interested, only that I'm not interested if it's no strings attached......

Any input appreciated......

[daring]

I have some more insight into where his mind is. Yesterday evening he opened up and talked more about things.
Said he isn't worried about how I will do, that I'm in a healthy place and I never needed him anyway ( not said in a sarcastic tone but more of you aren't codependent and I am suggestion). Then said he's glad we can communicate how we are right now, but worries when one it both if us are in relationships. Then said he knows I don't like to hear all that and he's sorry he has a lack of filter in discussing his thoughts.
Then the piece that I think might indicate why he's been the way he is recently came out. He said in counseling he has been working through how he got to a place of having an EA and the resultant effects. We had to stop the conversation as the kids came in, but he said he would share more later if I wanted to know.

I'm thinking he thinks he just hurts me too much and can't deal with it? I'm mind reading I know. But I can't help it. I see so much opportunity for us. And he is who I want a relationship with but I know I'm not in control of that.

Trying to stop and focus on the positives- he is being open and friendly and even loving. And what I need to work in is not being so insecure about every girl he has a friendship with and realize that I will be ok no matter what.

[daring]

I think I might have f'd up today.....

H asked me what I was journaling about this morning. I focused on the part related to myself and the things I want to work on ( changing how I feel about myself when he spends time with former EA or other women friends). He said that has nothing to do with me or the choices he is making. I said it's completely related as I choose to work on a relationship with the person I care about the most not start a new one where all the same issues will recur. He said he hadn't thought about it that way and how I look at things and how far I've come shows him how much work he has to do.
So here's where things take a turn- he's talking about different things including how he doesn't want to hurt me and he loves me but he just can't be in a relationship with me in that way ( because of things I've done or he's done but either way he can't). Says our relationship changes to focus on parenting and not partners and yes sometimes he does look at other relationships as a way to work through his issues but he's not sure he's good for anyone. I said I understand that is where you are right now and I'm sorry you are in so much pain. Then he talks about planning a weekend trip all together with D for her birthday.
I said if you really want to end this relationship you can't be half in and half out, I can be patient if you're working on things but I can't be tethered to a hope if it's not there. I can't have you half living at our house and half moved out ( he's only taken some clothes- everything else is at our house), we can't be planning family trips in the future- it's not fair to me emotionally to keep me half attached like that.
He said he hadn't even thought of it that way. He had been thinking about what kind of relationship he wanted with me and not what I want or need. I said I understand that but I have to be in a place where I can move on emotionally I want this marriage and maybe in the future if you do we can work on it but I can't live so back and forth.
Ugggh I'm afraid I'm pushing him but he needs to understand what it really looks like if this moves forward. He said he needs me in his life at some level and he's not sure what that is. I said I won't disappear from his life but if he wants to truly split we can't plan our lives like we are together.

2x4s welcome...... I just couldn't hold it in