What to do II

[raev]

You mean to tell me that your W is a physical touch LL and you're addicted to porn? Man... did you miss out.

I'm a quality time. Physical touch is a VERY close second for me. So, let me illuminate this for you: You violated her. When you use something else to satisfy your physical needs... instead of meeting HER LOVE NEEDS in the process... *shakes her head* I HATED my H for that. With a seething passion, hated him. I would have done ANYTHING to feel seen for even five seconds when we were intimate because it wasn't about SEX for me... it was about LOVE. That's why she was willing to stoop so low as to leave the porn on. She was desperate and so demeaned and so steeped in self-loathing... if she had to leave that on, put on an act, bleach her hair, starve herself, do anything for the hope that you'd see HER for a fraction of that time... that she could have a couple SECONDS when she could feel you connected... she'd do it.

You can't imagine how horribly betrayed a woman who needs physical touch feels when she can no long physically connect with her partner. When she feels like she's not going to be seen. That she's just a replacement for porn. That she's just an object, a c#m catcher. That you don't want her, you just want to get off. That you don't love her and you're just trying to shut her up or you're sexually frustrated. That she's going to be compared to something she can't live up to, something fake and contrived and not real and vulnerable and in need of love. JUST THE THOUGHT that you might be thinking of someone or something else when you f-ck her... instead of MAKING LOVE TO HER - which is what she needs from sex - is enough for her to be disgusted by you. You perverted the very thing your W needs to feel loved by you. That is not an easy fix, my friend. Any time you get the sense that she's receptive to you holding her hand or brushing the hair from her face, you better do it.

I don't want you to think that every physical affection girl needs every intimate interaction to be a great romance. I, too, hate porn with all the fires of Hades. But I have a pretty kink side. But I can't feel sexually liberated if I feel like my partner is using porn as an opening act. I don't need an opening act. I can warm up the "crowd" myself, thank you very much. My H has tried to indulge my kinky side a bit but always gets it wrong. Because physical affection is so very, very high for me on the LL scale - really alternates with time for first pick - I need to feel loved and SEEN in the majority of physically intimate moments or I will hate him for trying to get kinky and f-ck me. There's a strange sort of "I must feel *this loved* for you to ride this ride," requirement. If that ain't met... don't freakin' touch me, you insensitive b@st@rd. Personally, my H will probably never get it totally right because words are a really high score for me, too, and he's quiet in bed. Just so you know, if words of affirmation are in play for your wife and you're not tell her that you love her and she's gorgeous in bed... you're short changing both of you. Nothing gets me off quicker than those rare times when my H has been fully present and told me sweet things in bed.

Now... My H is not physical. It's the lowest scored LL for him. Between that and his porn addiction things got so bad that I found that there would be WEEKS with no one touching me. He doesn't even hold hands. You can't imagine how horribly, soul-crushingly painful and agonizing that is. I was touch starved for years. And I hated him for it. Being a fiercely loyal sort, I started going to massage therapy and spending money on pedicures to try and fill some of the emptiness. I was so depressed. So resentful. But I tell you, this is how affairs happen. There is nothing more dangerous than a touch starved, physical affection LL WAW. I don't want you panicking and freaking out... but d@mn it, you better lay off the porn permanently and take any opportunities she gives you to be affectionate toward her. The next time you kiss her, there better be fireworks. If her toes don't tingle... *shakes her head*

My H realizes now how stupid he was. He enjoys sex a lot, but it's just not a LOVE thing for him. When I finally got him to realize that he could have ended every single argument we ever had with, "You. Bed. Now!" he felt so idiotic. He missed out on a wonderful life. I wanted him to get his sorry a$$ home from work by 7 every day, tell me the dinner I cooked was fantastic, snuggled up behind me in the middle of the living room, wrap his arms and legs around me, put his hands over mine, and teach me to play video games, make out with me, take me to bed, and f-ck into the mattress every. single. night. And he missed it. Because he's an idiot.

If you get a chance to show her you love her... don't be an idiot. Don't miss out. Most men would kill to have a physical touch W.

If she hasn't read it already, there's not much you can do to get her to read 5LL right now. WHEN things improve, give her her own copy and tell her you want to understand her better so you can know what you need to do so that she never feels unloved or unwanted again. Tell her you want to read it together. But I don't know that now is the time for that.

Seriously, back off her family right now. Speak warmly of them if they come up... but back off. That's HER support group, not yours. If you've made your intentions to try to save your R with her known to them... that's more than enough. That is one area I would definitely give her space for now. And lay off this thing about her sister. You're really just hurt because she's spending time with her sister and you're a quality time person. Well, it's her sister... duh. They grew up together. Of course she's going to spend time with her right now. She's feeling vulnerable. Your sister-in-law does not hold absolute power over the fate of your marriage - even if she hated you, she doesn't have that kind of power. Let it go.

[Ben2010]

"Like I said though, lets not pretend that people are not here to get their spouse back. My concern is that I never see her, so any changes that she wanted, will never be noticed."

No one has pretended anything to argue against that. But the FACT right now is that you can't force her to see the changes you've made within yourself. Right now, the only thing in your power to do is change for the better and once you're on stronger ground, you can try to initiate contact by giving her a casual "how are you doing?" type of message.

This is true but I can somewhat influence whether she wants to see me or not. You will see what I mean reading the bottom part of my post.

In fact, she doesn't contact you anyway so even if you did find someone else, she probably wouldn't care. Keep the thoughts on making yourself happy first.

By me not answering her call yesterday morning, she then called 2 more times last night. I figured this kind of thing would get to her and make her miss me a bit. I didnt answer either of the 2 calls last night. I told her last week that I was not interested in speaking until she was ready to work on the M. She agreed to that and even said it might be better that way. So she called me 2 days ago to yell at me about talking to her family. This is something she could have done in a text message and just told me to stop talking to them. Then for some reason she told me that she would call me back later that night. She did not but texted me that she was sorry but very tired. So yesterday she called me before work and I did not answer. And then of course last night she called 2 more times with no answer. I cant imagine why she is calling right now, surely it cannot be to yell at me still over something so small and 2 days old. The way I see it, if she wants to work on the M or talk about that, then she can come see me if it is important enough for her. I am not having an F' off attitude but I dont want to be dragged into another argument on the phone with her. We do well in person.

The other part on this one, I can promise you with everything I have that she would lose it if I started dating anyone else right now or even talked to them. I am not interested in even entertaining the idea of me with someone else right now either though. And yes I will keep working on myself for now and pretend that she isnt there unless she comes and talks to me. Give me your thoughts on this. I am assuming you will not like what Im doing right now, but you did also say to finish the books before speaking with her again and Im not quite done.

[MrBond]

You can do whatever you wish but it is childish and game playing. You're enjoying this because you feel that it puts you in a position of power. She could very well be calling you to tell you that a friend had died. And if she suddenly stops calling, what's going to happen is that you're going to start to wonder why again and then start second guessing yourself.

Believe me, I've seen it all on these boards. The gameplaying doesn't work. But it's up to you to continue doing what you want to do.

[Ben2010]

Yeah I messed this up pretty bad. I had no idea that she was that into physical touch until I read 5LL. She still told me that she doesnt care sex though, Im sure it has to be some other technique that Im not doing or something there.

Im doing well with the porn addiction right now. I have not looked at it in over 3 weeks now and it seems to be a distant memory. I dont understand why I couldnt do this before. I still plan on reading books to help me understand it and make sure it doesnt come back. I just find that if when I get the urge to look at it, I think of how disgusting I will feel right after it and worse than I did before looking at it.

Im also quality time. Let me point out that for months I have begged her to spend time with me by ourselves and almost never got it. Way before the other girl that she thinks I cheated on her with. Thats all that I wanted and she just couldnt understand that just like I couldnt understand her physical touch issues. I can see why I valued being around the other girl now, because it was quality time and she always paid attention to me. I am not making excuses for what I did, just trying to explain why now that I understand it. It was wrong either way and I regret everything about it.

Coincidentally words of affirmation are her second LL. I see what youre saying about it. She has never really talked dirty and neither have I when we are having sex. Maybe sometimes something small would be said. When I get the chance again I will correct this. I never really thought about it before. It is good to hear this coming from a similar woman. I do want to throw this out there though. She has never been with anyone other than me before. I was her first real relationship and she saved herself for that. So she is very inexperienced with anything other than what I do.

The things we learn when its too late...

I will say that sex is not often a love thing for me either but it is sometimes. Most of the time I want to just have fun with it. I can understand her needing to feel loved during it and sometimes made that a priority. I wonder if I could do the "You. Bed. Now" thing to her...I will try that when I get the chance. Maybe it will erase a couple of issues or at least soften them.

And yeah I have decided to not bother talking to her family anymore. I will just let it go and not talk to her dad. I know that he is expecting my call soon, but it is just too much of an issue to bother with. Plus I dont see much good coming out of it. I will say that I have not made my intentions clear of what Im trying to do with her parents though. I did talk to her brother about it and he talked to her dad so Im sure that they know. If not then I guess then it doesnt really matter. They are all for her trying to work on the M. I do not want them pressuring her though so that she is forced to come back to me. They do have that kind of influence on her.

Thanks for the advice or eye opening from a woman's point of view with the same kind of issues.

[Ben2010]

I dont understand this now. You tell me its childish and playing games, but really the only thing Im doing is not answering the phone. Other than that nothing. Im not out trying to make her jealous with some other girl or anything like that. It does make me feel better to see that she is actually reaching out to me for once in the past 3 weeks. If it was a friend that had died she wouldve texted me that info. You are also the one that told me not to talk to her yet.

[MrBond]

"but really the only thing Im doing is not answering the phone. "

Not answering the phone a couple of times and explaining to her that you didn't get the message because you were out GAL, is fine. BUT doing it for the sole reason of getting her to come to you is game playing. You're not in high school any more.

If you're as confident as you insist you are, then you should be strong enough to be able to answer her call whenever she calls and not care what it's about.

[Ben2010]

"but really the only thing Im doing is not answering the phone. "

Not answering the phone a couple of times and explaining to her that you didn't get the message because you were out GAL, is fine. BUT doing it for the sole reason of getting her to come to you is game playing. You're not in high school any more.

If you're as confident as you insist you are, then you should be strong enough to be able to answer her call whenever she calls and not care what it's about.

I dont know that this pertains to strength. I told you before that every time we are on the phone it is just an argument. I dont see how that would solve anything by her just sitting there doing that.

[GoatGal]

[quote=thesoundofwings]You mean to tell me that your W is a physical touch LL and you're addicted to porn? Man... did you miss out.

I'm a quality time. Physical touch is a VERY close second for me. So, let me illuminate this for you: You violated her. When you use something else to satisfy your physical needs... instead of meeting HER LOVE NEEDS in the process...

You can't imagine how horribly betrayed a woman who needs physical touch feels when she can no long physically connect with her partner. When she feels like she's not going to be seen. That she's just a replacement for porn. That she's just an object, a c#m catcher. That you don't want her, you just want to get off.

That you don't love her and you're just trying to shut her up or you're sexually frustrated.

Because physical affection is so very, very high for me on the LL scale - really alternates with time for first pick - I need to feel loved and SEEN in the majority of physically intimate moments or I will hate him for trying to get kinky and f-ck me. There's a strange sort of "I must feel *this loved* for you to ride this ride," requirement. If that ain't met... don't freakin' touch me, you insensitive b@st@rd.

Personally, my H will probably never get it totally right because words are a really high score for me, too, and he's quiet in bed. Just so you know, if words of affirmation are in play for your wife and you're not tell her that you love her and she's gorgeous in bed... you're short changing both of you. Nothing gets me off quicker than those rare times when my H has been fully present and told me sweet things in bed.

Now... My H is not physical. It's the lowest scored LL for him. Between that and his porn addiction things got so bad that I found that there would be WEEKS with no one touching me. He doesn't even hold hands. You can't imagine how horribly, soul-crushingly painful and agonizing that is. I was touch starved for years. And I hated him for it. Being a fiercely loyal sort, I started going to massage therapy and spending money on pedicures to try and fill some of the emptiness. I was so depressed. So resentful. But I tell you, this is how affairs happen.


[/b]I wanted him to get his sorry a$$ home from work by 7 every day, tell me the dinner I cooked was fantastic, snuggled up behind me in the middle of the living room, wrap his arms and legs around me, put his hands over mine, and teach me to play video games, make out with me, take me to bed, and f-ck into the mattress every. single. night. And he missed it. Because he's an idiot.



All this ^^^^^ and the BOLD print even more.

It kills me that my H chose to have an affair where he could just have meaningless sex with someone not very important to him, instead of taking advantage of what he had waiting at home.

Many times I felt I would have been justified to cheat. I had plenty of chances to do so. But I am loyal, just not wired that way.

I too found ways of getting my "physical needs" met in healthier ways. I discovered partner dancing.
I get hugs and friendship, and get to feel a man's arms around me in a warm, connected, non-sexual way. (99.99% of the time. Sometimes, there is that !zing! but it's just a dance, nothing more. I make sure of that. )

Do you know how SAD and lonely that is?

[Ben2010]

Again, the things I wish I had known before...

[Ben2010]

Having a bit of a hard time today. Have not heard anything from the W in about 3 days. Its very hard fighting the urge to call her or text her. Had another breakdown at the house today before work. In my mind I just dont see how we could be S right now. This is the step before D and I never saw this coming. Seems like we have way too much together to just let it go. And yes MrBond you are right, I am kind of second guessing this right now. I cant change it now and call her though. My brother suggested that I send her a simple text saying "do you want to go see a movie tonight?" I am very unsure about doing this as I dont know what my reaction will be if she says no. I know that she had said we were supposed to go last Sunday to the movies but I kind of put a stop to that myself with the NC until she is ready to work on it. I dunno maybe I will wait and see how this weekend goes, whether she calls or not.