Cross country DB with WAS

[Anders]

So, W and I chatted by phone today. The last time was three weeks ago. Even with the DB insights, it still can be confusing.

W started off with small talk asking how I had been. We talked back and forth for a few minutes with updates on both sides.

Then she affirmed she is done and wanted us to discuss how best to tell our close friends that we are separated. She says she has no hard feelings and doesn't want them to ostracize me. She feels sad about the whole thing but thinks it is best we move on. She wants to tell them that we tried but it just didn't work. For the most, I tried to validate her and thanked her for letting me know that she would be telling them. She wants this to be as amicable as possible and actually said it is good that we can still have pleasant conversations.

She then surprised me with a bit of news about a close friend of hers. She has also separated but apparently posted the news on FB which W disagreed with and clarified she would not do that.

Then she wanted to find out if we could ever establish regular communication as we continued with our separate lives. And she asked me what I thought of that. She clarified 'just as friends' and that she still needs a few weeks of space before that would happen.

I said, it would be best if we took if one conversation at a time rather than committing to any long term friendship plan.

She said she agreed but said she wants a few weeks of NC. I didn't ask her if there was someone else. My instinct is that there is.

For the first time in a long time, she asked how my side of the family is doing.

We talked a bit about finances and then the next strange part of the conversation. She asked what my plans were: would I stay in this city or move on?

And if I stayed, I should consider staying in our place as the cost would be the same if not cheaper if I rented my own place. What makes this awkward is that our home is in her name. But she wants to leave the decision to stay or go up to me. On a practical level, she won't have to worry about finding a renter. She said she has no plans of coming back here anytime soon. Then said she might come back briefly if I decided to move out to pack things up and rent it out.

What is confusing is if she is done, it doesn't make sense for me to stay there. I was very tempted to ask her how she would feel if I did move on to someone else and brought them back to our place.

I asked her to give me a few days to think about it.

Then she asked me what I though about us being done and telling everyone. I told her I didn't feel the way she did about it all but understood where she is coming from and wouldn't try to reason her out of it. She didn't say anything.

Her phrasing was all around 'separation' though she seemed to be implying divorce but didn't mention it explicitly.

There was a tentative akwardness. For the most part it was relatively 'pleasant'. This could be both good and bad. For now feeling a bit overwhelmed and confused. She actually asked questions about my life. This has not happened in a long time.

[Anders]

Sandi2, When you have a moment, could you lend your experience and perspective to help me understand where Waw is coming from in this moment?

[Underdog]

db,

I've had some medical stuff going on with my D17 and haven't had much time to spare for anything lately. Sorry I've been AWOL.

Okay, since you said a couple days ago that you're learning how not to hide behind the cloak of indifference. How did you handle this conversation yesterday with that in mind?

Betsey

[Anders]

Journal:

I couldn't sleep at all last night. Our conversation keeps replaying in my mind.

Some key phrases she kept mentioning during yesterday's and our last conversation a few weeks ago keep coming up. She kept asking me yesterday if I had anything to ask her, kept emphasizing that we are separated and she wants to move on.

Is this a window for me to ask if there is another man and a PA?

Then the whole conversation about the separation but not divorce. Is she trying to find a way to keep me close while she sees where things go with OM?

[pilot]

From what I have learned, even if she is giving you a window where you you think you can ask about OM, dont. From your stand point, you have moved on and you do not care what she does or who she does. That is detachment at its finest. It will concern her more that you do not care, than any guilt you might try and lay on her by telling her you know.

[Anders]

db,

I've had some medical stuff going on with my D17 and haven't had much time to spare for anything lately. Sorry I've been AWOL.

Betsey

Sorry to hear about your D Betsey and hope she is doing well now.

db,

Okay, since you said a couple days ago that you're learning how not to hide behind the cloak of indifference. How did you handle this conversation yesterday with that in mind?

Betsey

Thanks for dropping in to give me your very welcomed perspective.

She asked a very direct question: "What do you think about this(that we tried everything we could but it just didn't work and about us moving forward with making the separation public)".

I had to take a moment here. I didn't want to plead and reason with her why I think she is wrong. But I also didn't want her to think I was in complete agreement with her. I said to her: " I can see where you are coming from on this. I am not going to try to convince you to change your mind but I am in a different place than where you are right now".

She didn't say anything to that.

[Anders]

From what I have learned, even if she is giving you a window where you you think you can ask about OM, dont. From your stand point, you have moved on and you do not care what she does or who she does. That is detachment at its finest.

Thanks Pilot. This is a good perspective. It has been a real struggle today to try to stay detached while also wondering if I am defaulting to my old habits of not rocking the boat by avoiding the question. Silly I know given where we are but that thought is lingering.

It has been a real challenge for me finding the line between acting like I don't care about her and not letting what she does bother me.

It will concern her more that you do not care, than any guilt you might try and lay on her by telling her you know.

Save my marriage or save my ego. Good advice here Pilot.

But I am curious, from what I have read in other situations and WASs, I don't get the sense that they would worry if we don't react. Do you think she may actually be wondering why I didn't ask?

[pilot]

At this point in time, as I am learning, when there is an A with OP, they really do not care what your thoughts are. It is all about them. At some point that will change...maybe. And at some point they will wonder why you no longer bring it up and ignore the A altogether. But only when they sense you have moved on from them, and you are no longer a possible Plan B for them. Then is where I hear they get curious/nervous/interested.

Who knows if your W is wondering. That is mind reading and will get you no where but confused and upset.

[Anders]

But only when they sense you have moved on from them, and you are no longer a possible Plan B for them. Then is where I hear they get curious/nervous/interested.

Who knows if your W is wondering. That is mind reading and will get you no where but confused and upset.

Wise words and thank you for making this clear for me.

Feeling better today after getting some sleep. I was all over the place yesterday and barely made it through a meeting as I was feeling drained by the end of the day. I am getting schooled in the art of pushing through even when I don't feel like it.

I went back to my goals to get me centered. One is for W and I to establish a safe space to communicate honestly. A smaller goal was for W and I simply to communicate. From this perspective, we are making some baby steps.

You are right on mind reading Pilot. I gave my crystal ball a good work out yesterday. Today, it is back in the box.

[Anders]

db,

Okay, since you said a couple days ago that you're learning how not to hide behind the cloak of indifference. How did you handle this conversation yesterday with that in mind?

Following up with some additional insights on this Betsey:

I think in the past, my indifference came across that I didn't care about her.

During Sunday's talk, I tried to be empathetic and tried as much as possible to validate what she was saying.

A key thing she did say was that she was glad we could still talk like this. This is the point where she then asked what I thought about us staying in contact as we moved on.

A few weeks ago, she was pretty certain she could not see that happening and at the very least a maybe.

Trying very hard here not to have any expectations.

It is difficult though. I am struggling to find that space between not pursuing (by reasoning with her, saying that I miss her, etc) and coming across as indifferent(that I don't care about her).