What to do

[Ben2010]

I appreciate it Thornton. I dont know if I could make it a month without talking to my W. called the Doctor to see if he could help me but I havent gotten a call back from him yet. I read that its pretty common when taking Wellbutrin. She just has such a huge support group that I dont have. She has her whole family to keep her busy and not thinking about me. I have to think about her all the time and it [censored]. Im very worried about how I will deal with this part of it. I think if I can stay strong and not backslide then I might have a chance here.

[Thornton]

Your situation mirrors mine. My WAW is surrounded by her mother, sisters, and tons of friends. Her support system is massive.

You can make it. Just take one day at a time and listen to what the vets have to say here. They will challenge you but it's for your own good.

There will be times that you fail. Dust yourself off, LEARN from your mistake and keep going.

[Ben2010]

It seems that everyday now I break down into tears thinking that she will not come back. i havent even begun to detach. I can somewhat fake it in front of her, but im sure she can still tell. She told me that everyone she talks to tells her to get out of the R. That is a huge obstacle to overcome. For one she has told everyone what is going on. For two I think it will be very hard for her to justify coming back to me when everyone tells her not to. The only thing in my favor is her SIL that tells her that she has no biblical right for a divorce or separation. I thought that would be a big thing in my favor since her whole family is Christian, but it doesnt seem to matter. Im also second guessing whether I did this too soon or not. I felt good about it yesterday and right after I did it, but now im not so sure.

[Nettles]

Ben,

5 days ago, you responded that W has never mentioned D. Is that still true? If no, go to 1 below; if yes, go to 2 below:

1. Chill out.
2. Chill out.

Your first post was about W telling you she needed changes. Your last post about your convo with W was about her fear that changes wouldn't last.

Keep working at the changes. Keep working on you. Forget about her support structure and people telling her to get out. Even with the changes, W may not come back. But there is no way she's coming back without you keeping up with your changes.

You are in a good spot. W has detailed out what she wants and hasn't talked D. It is in your hands. You can do this.

[rayzzz]

My WAW has said to me several times that "alot of people have told her to leave me" but I think WAW keep mentioning that to justify their insecurities. Found this mentioned on a thread here about detachment. Good article http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Try not to go to self pity, fortune telling, fears and what ifs...anxiety is a waste of time and depletes your already low resources PMA by GALing...all stuff you already know. Let your second guessing go about what you already did. Its done. Stay patient bud. Week is not over yet...or a month...no expectations.
Digg deep and soldier on Ben, you can do it bro

[Ben2010]

Thanks guys for keeping my mind in check. Im sure you both know what im going through. I dont feel like doing anything right now at all except laying on the couch. I am going to try to start p90x or insanity this weekend. Im also thinking about starting to play frisbee golf again. I used to enjoy it but the people i played with stopped playing. Trying to get my brother involved in it. I know i should chill out, just hard to not focus on that.

[Thornton]

Yep, everything you're feeling and going through is pretty much par for the course. It [censored].

Definitely do P90x or Insanity. You won't feel like doing it but you have to push yourself.

I like to workout at the gym, always have. When the bomb dropped, I had to literally force myself to go. Once I even had to cut my workout short because I was afraid I was going to start crying in front of 50 meatheads, no bueno.

But I keep going and it does help.

[Wonka]

Ben,

Let's dissect your convo with W with the goal of learning about the WAW mind and using validation skills effectively. Ok?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I asked her if she would come over and we could have a talk last night. She agreed to it but not without getting really snippy and asking about what. I just told her the whole situation. I had given up on her coming over about the time that she pulled up. She asked me to come down to her car. I have a feeling that she didnt want to come in the apartment because she thinks that I would just keep talking and not let her leave.

Becareful of mindreading. W has her own reasons for wanting you to come to her car. You just don't know the why part. It's as simple as that. Although I suspect it might be hard for the WAS to enter the marital home as reminders of you and the M are all over the place.

So I went down to her car and she made small talk for a bit. Didnt seem to be in a bad mood but seemed really tired and stressed out.

This would have been a great opportunity to show concern in a brief way such as "It seems to me that you're tired...have you had a long day at work?"

I let her finish what she wanted to talk about and then I told her this:

"I dont want this to come off as mean or anything, but I cant play these games anymore. It seems that we arent getting anywhere with talking because it just turns into a fight. I dont think we should talk anymore until you are ready to work on the M."

It is not "playing games" when you have a deeply wounded WAW wanting space from you to figure out her stuff. What is so wrong with that? You will need to accept that W may not contact you or want to talk with you as much as YOU want to. She's on a different timetable than you. The sooner you realize this, the better your emotions will be.

No talk until she's ready to work on the M?! The M is long gone. How about reframing this in your mind to use the opportunities to show W the 'new' Ben? You can't expect the WAW to go from 0 to 120 mph in working on the M. It is not how it works at all.

You need to build up on each interaction one by one. How that is done is by doing several things: 1) Light & Breezy 2) No R talk unless W talks 3) Validate effectively when opportunities arise at the moment

To my surprise that opened the flood gates. She wasnt yelling or anything but she told me everything that bothered her. I sat back and listened validating some of it. Admitting that she had every right to feel that way.

Her feelings are as equally valid as yours. They may change next week, next month, next year.

She of course said the usual "why didnt you try and fix this before." I told her that i understood her frustration with it but that it was better late than never. She also told me that she wasnt sure if my changes were going to last. I said "these changes are for me, I want to be a better person for me, if you happen to be there then you will benefit as well."

Ben, you handled this part very well. Nice job!

She also explained that she was just afraid that it would go back to the same thing. I told her that I understood that too, but that I was in this for the long haul. We discussed the 5LL which surprisingly she read already. I told her that it opened my eyes and that it could be so simple for us to have a happy M. She said that she has tried to tell me before so many times and even tried to get me to read the book. I do remember that, I told her that I was just an idiot and didnt understand what was going on or what I was doing. I also said that anyone who gets married should have to read that book first.

How about saying, "Thank you for telling me. I didn't realize how important this was to you and I apologize for not being attentive to your feelings. This is something I'd do differently now.

She ended the night by driving me up to the door and asking if she should call me in a week or so. I said "no you should call me when you are ready to work on the R." She hugged me and that was the night.

I wouldn't put down such a hard line to W on this...unless she's in active affair with OM. Another way would be, "I will not have any discussions with you on the M until you've ended things with the OM, give me access to your phone/emails because it is disrespectful to me and our M.

Overall I felt pretty good about it. Now is the hard part though. I have to make sure that I dont contact her at all until she calls me. I want her to get a real look at what a S or D would be like and see if thats really what she wants. I know its early on for me, but sometimes you have to play for all the marbles.

As Sandi has mentioned several times here in DB, it takes a while for the WAS to start missing the true essence of their spouses and friendship with them that the start thinking about coming home. It is a long journey back home which is why we all stress the importance of keeping the road home paved smooth for them.

[Ben2010]

So Im already having a rough day. I went to the counselor today and broke down in his office. I cant help but to do that everytime I think about what Ive done to my W. Im finding it very hard to have a positive outlook at all right now. I cant seem to function at work, which is where Im at right now. I just have a very uneasy feeling that this isnt going to turn out how I want it to. The counselor seems to think that I made the right move by telling the W that I didnt think we should talk until she was ready to work on the R. I keep flip flopping on it, whether it was the right move or not. Trying to take advice from people on here telling me to chill out about it. I just cant imagine myself finding someone that I will care about as much as my W and for that matter I am not even close to interested in that. The counselor did say that she might be angry because she knows that we shouldnt be separated right now and doesnt want to feel guilty. He also said that she might be wanting a D even though she hasnt said that she did, but that she is too afraid to face the confrontation. Im trying to be strong here and not give in to contacting her. I still cant help but to remember the time before we got married and I broke up with her for 2 weeks. She bothered me nonstop for the 1st week and I told her to stop that I didnt want that. She stopped and didnt contact me for a week and then finally texted me to have sex. Im hoping that it only takes her a week like it did me of not bothering her to start talking to me, but not very optimistic about it. I appreciate all of you guys helping me through this. I dont think I could make it at all if I wasnt here.

[Ben2010]

This would have been a great opportunity to show concern in a brief way such as "It seems to me that you're tired...have you had a long day at work?"

I asked her what was wrong? She told me that it was stress from work and everything else.

It is not "playing games" when you have a deeply wounded WAW wanting space from you to figure out her stuff. What is so wrong with that? You will need to accept that W may not contact you or want to talk with you as much as YOU want to. She's on a different timetable than you. The sooner you realize this, the better your emotions will be.

The part about playing games that Im referring to is telling me that she is going to call me and not calling me at all for like 2 days. I understand that she needs time and space, but Im not just here to be used when she wants someone to talk to and no one else is around.

No talk until she's ready to work on the M?! The M is long gone. How about reframing this in your mind to use the opportunities to show W the 'new' Ben? You can't expect the WAW to go from 0 to 120 mph in working on the M. It is not how it works at all.

Ok, so the reason I went to this was because she has already agreed to go to counseling and a date. She seems to be forcing this to me though. The date is called off at this time and I feel like that might have been a mistake by me. She also told me earlier in that same day that she "didnt want to fix things." Not sure how to take that. Maybe it means right now, maybe it means never.

Ben, you handled this part very well. Nice job!

Thanks, I thought I did well on that too. Though I think she will be skeptical about it until I can prove consistently that I have changed.

I wouldn't put down such a hard line to W on this...unless she's in active affair with OM. Another way would be, "I will not have any discussions with you on the M until you've ended things with the OM, give me access to your phone/emails because it is disrespectful to me and our M.

Not really sure where you get the OM thing from. I dont think she is involved with anyone else. Although such a radical change in her behavior has made me question it. I didnt deliver that in a mean way either. It was more of explanatory saying that I know that she will need time and that I wasnt putting a limit on it for her.



As Sandi has mentioned several times here in DB, it takes a while for the WAS to start missing the true essence of their spouses and friendship with them that the start thinking about coming home. It is a long journey back home which is why we all stress the importance of keeping the road home paved smooth for them.

This is the part that I am going to have the most trouble with. The patience thing is not something Im good at. Everytime I think of contacting her I call my brother instead. Thankfully he is almost always available for me to talk to. I feel like he might be getting tired of hearing it though.

Thanks for your comments Wonka. It is always appreciated from an outside view.