RedHawk,

I haven't followed your situation as much as these other guys. I'm sure they care for you. However, I think they are being a bit harsh.

I've seen guys on DB do complete 180's. They recovered their confidence, manned-up, became who they were/who they were supposed to be, etc. and win back their wives. Their wives NEVER changed and never really came to terms with the horrific things they did to their husbands. Sure these husbands kept up the changes FOR A WHILE. But in the end, they slipped. And guess what? Their wives cheated on them again. The point is you BOTH need to change. I get the whole "you can only change yourself" mantra people tell you.

Truth is marriage is for better or for worse. Your wife showed that her response to your not "being your best self" is to cheat on you and leave you. If you want to keep listening to people who want to tell you that you DESERVE to have been cheated on, then go ahead.

Sometimes manning up is realizing that you deserve better and that your spouse, is, at best, a flaming turd.

I'm all for manning up, etc. Truth is when your marriage is at stake, your spouse is cheating and you really want them back, your best manning up is partly tainted with desperation and people pleasing. You are doing this to win them back. They can smell it. It oozes out. You (we) are playing a game of "pick me" and our spouse's ego is inflated if they are even noticing us at all.

Affairs are forgive-able. Marriages can be redeemed. But it takes a huge amount of work on BOTH sides. Also, people who linger on these forums get a truncated view of "classic" divorce busting. Michelle Weiner David talks about the Last Resort Technique, After the Last Resort Techniques, No Contact and finally, ultimatums. You seldom hear about that here. People get stuck in telling you to get a life, man-up, etc, but forget that at times, that means showing strong boundaries and, if necessary giving your wife an ultimatum.

Frankly I think a *strong* demonstration of boundaries, and a hard-line are quick and measurable ways of getting a cheater's attention. The long, drawn-out, I'll win them over with my "new and improved" self is often perceived as weakness and actually repels our cheating spouses.

I tried the whole, "I'm going to be a better person and fight hard to save my marriage" thing while my wife was cheating. It didn't work. I barely got out with my sanity and my health. I wasted YEARS of my life.

Again I strongly urge you to go the blog "Chump Lady" for a good laugh and, perhaps a slightly harder line on cheating spouses.

--Theoden