Cross country DB with WAS

[Underdog]

DB,

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself at the wedding and took the positive comments to heart. I know how much of a boost that can be when you're generally uncomfortable with pretty much everything.

I doubt you'll find many of my threads now, because I started here in 2003 and they try to clean up the database every now and again. I was gone for a really long time, but when I entered the dating pool again last year, I found my baggage from this journey left me unsure how to feel and act. So I came back, recognized a few folks, and started asking for support again down in Surviving (which I think is a crappy name for a forum, BTW).

I'm happy to answer questions, so just ask.

Ouch-this reminds me very much of our situation. Do you think if he had made progress on this things would have worked out?

Well, I was the one who worked on it with him because it bugged the crap out of me and left me holding the bag when he committed to doing things with our girls, who were 8 and 5 when he moved out (they are now 20 and 17). I read a whole lot on the subject, and frankly, the prognosis was pretty grim on turning things around. But I made a good attempt anyway, and for a couple reasons, my XH has responded very well.

In a nutshell, I gave him permission up front to say no when I asked him things. It was such a new thing at first that he truly enjoyed telling me no just to try it on to see how it felt. I promised myself that I wouldn't berate him, express disappointment or get angry with him if he opted to choose NO. (All bets were off if our oldest had something to say, though.) When he said no, I would reply, "Ok, thanks for being honest." And I let it go. It wasn't horribly long before he realized that the things I was asking him to do (most of the time swapping time with me to have the girls) wound up alienating him from the 2 people he adored most in this world. He started saying YES, and he discovered that our R became a whole lot more cooperative and supportive.

So, no. It did not change his mind, though I know now that he always had second thoughts and was just really reluctant to believe that things could be better. When he got proof that it could, he was reluctant to believe that *he* could commit to changing his side. So that's that. And yes, he's expressed remorse and regret. I'm probably one of the few folks here who heard those magic words, and again recently. It took him a very long time (even with friends coaching him) for him to truly understand that the biggest repercussion of his choices came from the physical distance between us, and that our oldest's friends and pursuits were on my side of town. That geographical distance made it really difficult on our D20 (she's a competitive volleyball player and in general just a very active person with good friends in my 'hood), and that ultimately she chose her own life. Which pretty much leaves him with the short end of the stick where spending time with her is concerned. He really gets it now. Unfortunately, that barn door was open 10 years ago and the animals have long gone.

And frankly, it makes ME sad knowing that he feels this way. I do what I can to try to arrange time for them to spend. Our D20 goes to college in NY, so neither of us sees her too much anymore, and she does make an effort to see him. It's just sad.

This is one of my biggest fears if W and I are to move forward. I do think it would be helpful for her to work with a good coach/IC. Even her BFF recommended she try it. However, she is very wary of counseling in general, especially so since our last MC sessions where she felt we ganged up on her. I could see us 'reconciling', things rolling along smoothly for a few months or even years, then it all falling apart again due to the same issues.

DB, it all falls back to the simplistic thought of "If it's worth the effort, she'll do it". And I know full well what happens when the party feels ganged up on, because it tends to come across as "Here's what's wrong with you, if only you'd fix that..." Everyone has their "aha" moment at their own pace. It would be ideal if you could do it simultaneously. But you can't force the horse to drink at the trough, ya know.

For a long time, I put my wife in the center of it all. I put her on a pedestal. Then I resented the fact that she didn't put me on pedestal as well. I made my life about her. To the point that I became so afraid of loosing her, that did everything I thought I should do not to loose her.

Pedestals are awful things. I was on one too. They put someone above you, you refuse to see the flaws and accept them, and there is only one way off: down. And you can't put Humpty back together again once that happens, because the flaws and cracks look awful compared to the perfection you were so intent on seeing. We're all flawed.

Now, question time. Are you devoting enough time to making YOU a fulfilled and generally happy person? Because when you focus on that, you generally don't put people on pedestals and keep them as peers. Tell me more about your efforts to keep the focus on you.

Then I received a text from W asking if I was free to talk that night. First communication in two weeks. I felt a bit curious about what she wants to talk about and was quickly able to switch gears back to simply enjoying the wedding.

We are to talk later this week.

Excellent! Now you have a good opportunity to ask questions, do a lot of listening, offer empathy and support and leave her with a very positive feeling when she hangs up. If she baits you, choose not to take it. One of the tactics you can use is to flip it and ask her a question or at the least, get it to a point where you can validate her. (Go back and re-read Wonka's list.) If she gets agitated and starts to tell you what was wrong with you (don't you just hate that? ;)), hear her out and say something like, "Now I can see how that must have bothered you."

Make your whole goal to steer the conversation into uncharted territory where you leave her wanting to talk to you more frequently or more deeply.

LOL, I always tell people if my XH lived in his car, we'd still be married. He has a rather crappy commute from work to my side of town to pick up the girls on his nights. His job is really stressful, he works too much, has too much responsibility, and most of the time, he didn't make time to think about anything else. He definitely didn't let our separation affect him at work, but Mother Nature works in funny ways. He'd get in the car and his mind would veer towards stuff that was bothering him or he'd agree to talk to me about something that was bothering me. We'd have 40 minutes of uninterrupted time, and I used it to the fullest advantage I could. Our talks were sometimes light and easy. But then again, we could bare our souls. He couldn't drink his feelings away, and since he focused on driving (yes, we use our bluetooth devices LOL) and less on the emotional response. It was awesome.

I kept this secret to myself, as I know that he'd turn off his phone if he suspected I have super powers LOL. I use it today as well. We usually don't have the kind of talks about "us" now, but equally difficult conversations about our kids.

My point: See if you can recognize patterns where you can have better communications. If your W doesn't like to talk at certain times and you know you're not going to see her in a cooperative fashion, why set yourself up to fail? Try to figure some of this stuff out so that she can see for herself how things have improved.

I will tell you that it took me exactly SIX months for my XH to realize that we had made *significant* progress talking to each other. When I knew he saw, we were having a conversation that in earlier times guaranteed a fight, he made a comment about it, and said something about not knowing if I'd pick a fight with him. THAT was when I asked him, "Okay, do you remember the last time we fought? About anything?" He got really quiet and said, "No. Actually, I don't." And I chose to be smart and just left it the hell alone so he could go off and contemplate. Because that's what my XH does, being the good little engineer he is. The next day, he called me from the car and said, "I appreciate everything you are doing, and from here on out, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt." And he's kept his word.

And now to my last commentary before I sign off and get to work:

The only thought in my head at that moment was that I cannot remember the last time W said that to me. And in those moments, it is tough not to feel both lonely and angry. And to ask why I am still here.

Just remember that she doesn't believe in herself right now. In order to love others in the manner they deserve, we have to love ourselves first. Her confusion is undoubtedly the by-product of the choices she's made, and the path that you are both on. I do understand why you are angry, but don't spend too much time there... otherwise, you will derail your progress. Journal it - whether here or privately - and just let those thoughts come and go.

I had an amazing coach here named Laurie. I really wish that more people here would do what she recommended to me long ago: to keep a solutions journal. I used it faithfully to experiment and monitor results. I could see in black and white what worked and what didn't. I did more of what worked and less of what didn't. It truly helped me change how I behaved or reacted, and helped me keep my focus where it belonged: on making ME a happier person.

I invited my XH over to dinner for Father's Day on Sunday. He agreed. I'll make something good (he and I both are good cooks), and I'm planning on telling a story so that he knows he's appreciated by me as a good dad. I know from your perspective that it might seem as though we are meant to be together, but we aren't. He's in a steady, committed R with someone else, and we are just really good friends. We were friends for quite awhile before we dated, and I'm just glad we can co-parent together as friends who care. After all, we have a life long parenting R ahead of us with our daughter. So it's all good. I promise.

You're doing fine, DB. Keep looking forward. No matter how this story plays out, you're going to be a better happier you in the long run. And *that* is the ultimate gift of this process, if you do it right. From where I sit, you are.

Now I'll let you come back with comments and observations about that article on P/A people.

Betsey