Bleagh (I mean Bets )- Not a good PMA situation at all. You handled it like the pro you are, though! I'm inclined to agree with Meredith that all this weirdness on his part is due to grief - I think he's just taking some cave time to process it all. You are doing just fine! (((((((Betsey)))))))) Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Mer, part of me wants to initiate the C sessions again, but the other part of me is VERY wary. I've decided to take the same stand in my own life that I posted on your thread: I'm going to sit on the bench and watch the game instead of insisting I need to play first string.
No, this is against my true nature, but I have a feeling I need to learn some more plays before I jump in the game.
Ocean journaling:
My boss called me late last night. His stepfather (who is the man he called dad) is dying in a hospital in Phoenix. He decided to take a road trip, leaving this morning.
I've got a lot of work to do--on my own and things for him--so I might not be posting as much. Bear with me!
Hugs to all,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey, please take this as my humble opinion, but I want to give you a male's perspective here. No, it is not you, he is emotionally drained.
You know as well as anyone that a male deals with his emotions differently than a woman does. Even though I am DBing, I still deal with my emotions differently than my W. Always will. Fortunately, I have learned HOW to deal with them, through C and DB.
Mr. W has been through ALOT this past week. He is on an emotional rollercoaster himself. He has the death of his mom, the family, your immediate family, and all sorts of other things that are running through his mind. That brain of his is working full time right now. He hasn't slept much from D10's report also. Now, gather all this info and ask yourself one question, "did I, betsey, have anything to do with this?" I'd be willing to bet that the answer is a resounding NO. You had nothing to do with his mood, correct?
Then why did you need to ask if it was due to you? I have to ask, but is this a cheeseless tunnel for you? Why the questions when you were being a "grinch"?
Mr. W is hurting right now, whether you see it or not. He may not have had the greatest R with his mom, but he had one that was not of hate, at least I don't think. The loss is still a loss, and it is weighing on his emotions. He needs to step back himself and regroup. How about letting him do that? Firing questions about you to him at this time I don't see as productive for you. His emotions and mood is not clear at this time.
What was your first thought when your SIL told you about Mr. W announcing that the word "betsey" was not to be said"? Did that hurt you that maybe there was a chance that he would spill everything out and take everyone's words to heart? I thought about this and have another view on this for you to think about. How about he did not want to talk about the sitch he is in with you because it was too much for him to handle? What if his emotions were so strong about being there for the death of his mom and the connection with his family that he felt he could not handle talks about the status of your M? Is this unreasonable if you look at it this way?
You do have a right to ask these questions, but I think the timing is what is off here. Yes, he is withdrawing into the cave. He needs to think these things through. This is what a male does. Do you need to change this? I think what he needs is validation. understand and let him feel what he is feeling. validate and hopefully he comes out of the cave quickly, then that is the time to possibly discuss C. Remember, he is not the one DBing right now. It is you. What could you have done in this sitch for their to be less irritation?
I don't think this is alien behavior. This is a guy who is hurting and is trying to figure out what path to take. This is MHO. Give him time and space (and I know you are doing that already). He will come out of the cave. But let him know you are there for him, unconditionally (very hard, I know).
And yes, it sucks that you may have to do this without getting an inkling in return. But this is the name of the game right now. He needs you, his way.
Your validation at the end was magnificient and I am sure he appreciates it.
I didn't intend this to be rude or tell you that you did things wrong, because you didn't. I also wasn't there at these events so I really don't know what happened. And I certainly don't know what is specifically going through Mr. W's head. It's just that I think maybe Mr. W needs a break here, after all, running through the gammit of emotions is not fun, remember? To me, he is not an alien, he is mourning, and thinking.
And this is good if you think about it.
Again, this is all IMHO.
Big hugs and a basket to you!
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
I'll throw in my $.02 here (with a warning that my PMA is a little down today - been thinking of my buddy wiley and his D hitting today).
This is based on my experience with my WAW - her MLC and the series of events that occured last year for her, most notably, her brother's unexpected and tragic death.
I wanted to be there for her then - didn't know how (we had been separated 5 months when it happened, and just 2 weeks before, she was adamant about pursuing a D).
I finally decided I would be "there" for her when she needed me, but I wouldn't push to be there...make sense?
Anyway, she changed over the course of a few months and seemed to push the D a little less - at least until October when she filed.
I guess the point I'm trying (but clearly failing) to make is that nobody can tell how a life-altering event will ultimately affect a person who arguably is already in the midst of a personal crisis.
Seems to me that your best bet now is to "be there" when he reaches for you, but not push to be there. Not earth-shattering wisdom, I know, but sometimes the simple approach is just what's needed. (and admittedly, it looks like I'm very near to being D'd, so what good is my advice anyway)
I'm glad to see you recognizing some finite period to this limbo (as my friend Don Harvey, who wrote "When the One You Love Wants to Leave" would say, you can't live on Jello forever).
One last piece of unsolicited advice which I suspect you're already savvy about. Be careful with in-laws. Mine said the same things to me. And I still care for them. But blood IS thicker than water, Bets - it just is. I haven't spoken to any of mine in months - part of the detaching for both of us, I guess. So just be prepared, ok?
Your post was well received and exactly what I needed to hear. But you already know this!
So to keep myself honest, I'm going to post excerpts from our chat for auditing purposes (a self audit, that is):
TripleJ says: i posted my reply.
Betsey says: on my thread?
TripleJ says: yes. keep an open mind about it, K?
Betsey says: yes, dear!
Betsey says: you are right on the money, friend. thanks!
TripleJ says: your welcome!
Betsey says: but i want to discuss what my fears are because to me they are relevant
Betsey says: you want me to post them instead?
TripleJ says: sure, i'm all ears. if you want to post that is fine. email is fine. or now, whichever you choose
Betsey says: i'll post later... but tell you now.
TripleJ says: and I know you have fears
Betsey says: the thing about his refusing to let anyone talk to him about me is something that has been happening since he left
Betsey says: i'm really afraid that he is going to enter the cave and never come out. he's only asking himself the questions and not looking for answers other than the ones his self talk provides
Betsey says: i know i know, i need to trust the process
TripleJ says: i am sure you have thought about this alot. but are you looking at this one dimensional?
Betsey says: possibly... because what i'm feeling is based on the past. that sort of sounds irrational, but typically 43 year old unenlightened men try to act the same way if they don't get feedback from someone who has a more clear picture of the issues
TripleJ says: why do you think self talk is such a bad thing?
Betsey says: not all self talk, but Mr. W. has admitted in MC to constant negative self talk
TripleJ says: would you rather have Gary give him the answers?
Betsey says: uh, gary might be
Betsey says: he's lost both his parents
TripleJ says: true, but you don't know do you?
Betsey says: no, i don't.... and you're right. but remember that this is my fear. it doesn't make it reality
TripleJ says: fear of the unknown will kill you Bets, you know that
Betsey says: i know.
Betsey says: so you're in the helicopter.
Betsey says: i need your night vision
Betsey says: and i need your help to guide me
TripleJ says: that's why I'm here
Betsey says: ok so here goes.
Betsey says: i didn't post this earlier
TripleJ says: and vice versa ya know
TripleJ says: spill
Betsey says: i know!
Betsey says: ok
Betsey says: last night D10 gave me a message from the pediatrician's nurse... saying i had to reschedule D6's annual check up appt. it was originally set for next sat am, which is Mr. W's time... and he agreed to it awhile back
Betsey says: so i called the office and rescheduled it for the same day but at the other office (which is where the doctor will be--about 10 minutes away from the main one)
TripleJ says: Mr. W. get mad?
Betsey says: i told the scheduler to put it in but i'd call back if it didn't work with Mr. W.... and called him to ask
Betsey says: he answered the phone very irritated
Betsey says: i told him the problem and he was hideous and snotty
Betsey says: i asked him to help me make a decision because either way the decision affected him
Betsey says: he yelled, "i don't care--just tell me when!"
Betsey says: I asked if there was something about our communication that upset him and he said (irritated):
TripleJ says: you DO realize his mood has nothing to do with you
Betsey says: "bets, i am SO behind at work and i'm not functioning well."
TripleJ says: and?
Betsey says: you're right. but it really hurts to be yelled at.... for nothing i am doing or not doing. how do i keep nice without going there?
Betsey says: i know he doesn't yell at his coworkers like he's doing with me, and he sure as hell doesn't yell at the girls.
TripleJ says: I know it hurts to be yelled at. Believe me, I know. But Bob does not always have to be talking you know
Betsey says: bob hasn't been around since he left for montana... cuz bob doesn't fit in well with us right now
TripleJ says: yes he does
Betsey says: i just need to fine tune my response to his obvious need to lash out without taking it personally
Betsey says: HELP
TripleJ says: would you say that bob is a chatterbox?
Betsey says: no, bob is just infintely happy... something i think Mr. W. would find insulting
TripleJ says: it is not the words that bob says, it is the aura when he is around
TripleJ says: you don't have to say a word and you can be bob
Betsey says: okay, i'm listening
TripleJ says: i have to disagree that bob is infintely happy
TripleJ says: i have to say that bob has gotten pissed off once or twice
TripleJ says: its what bob does then that makes him great
Betsey says: ok, help me here... cuz my version of bob is bubbly happy
TripleJ says: what is the source of bob's happiness?
TripleJ says: what makes bob happy?
Betsey says: seeing others happy and win?
TripleJ says: hmmmmmm
Betsey says: and a really fat paycheck?
TripleJ says: so, if a grumpy old cuss wins the bidding round, how would bob handle this guy
Betsey says: hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
TripleJ says: would bob ask if he was the source of this guys unhappiness?
Betsey says: uh, no
TripleJ says: well?
Betsey says: what, so act as if Mr. W. is grieving and mean but i'm okay with that?
TripleJ says: so if the grumpy old cuss wins, would he be happier?
Betsey says: hmmmm. maybe for a few minutes
TripleJ says: then he goes to the showcase showdown
Betsey says: then he'd head back to waukesha a grumpy old cuss
TripleJ says: and if he wins that?
Betsey says: ok, bob will be happy that he got here
TripleJ says: hmmmm. so did bob help him win that bidding round?
TripleJ says: are you following me?
Betsey says: i'm not sure if bob helped or just acted as if grumpy shithead was going to win
Betsey says: maybe?
TripleJ says: bob is not there to help this guy win. he has to do it on his own. bob is only there for support
TripleJ says: Mr. W. needs to do this on his own, but you need to be there for support
Betsey says: so i know that he needs to do this on his own.... i guess i need to stop asking if i'm making him mad. is this what you're trying to tell me?
TripleJ says: i am saying that his mind is full, and it is not due to you. let him run his path, but be there for him in his way
Betsey says: ok.... give me some specifics "a la bob" that i could do to let his shitty comments roll off my back... i guess this is where i'm tripping up
TripleJ says: you tell me. what could have been done differently than what happened?
TripleJ says: i actually ran into this same exact thing
Betsey says: crap, you are right
TripleJ says: what's the answer?
Betsey says: i could act AS if i know this isn't my schtick
Betsey says: and validate when he speaks, empathize when he speaks
Betsey says: and understand the rage he's feeling is probably not due to me.
TripleJ says: bingo
TripleJ says: now apply this to the appt thing
Betsey says: what IF some of that rage IS due to me?
TripleJ says: can't think like that
Betsey says: ok. i'll pretend that scenario doesn't exist. back to the appt
TripleJ says: you took the initiative to reschedule on his day. what could have been different?
Betsey says: he could have...
TripleJ says: yes and no, but you didn't give him that choice
Betsey says: wait a sec... that isn't enirely true
TripleJ says: right?
TripleJ says: did you call after you rescheduled?
Betsey says: yes, this is when i called him
Betsey says: and let him know that i could always change things
Betsey says: ok, i will acceed here... i could have stopped him nicely last night and mention that the appt fell on his day with them and let him know (nicely) he could have the honors
TripleJ says: and I commend you for that. but what could have been more positive for you and mr. w., could you have offered to reschedule, validating his hectic schedule and ask what time he would like to reschedule for since he is taking her to the appt
TripleJ says: no, not last night
Betsey says: i did give him 3 alternates of choice....
Betsey says: today? yes, i gave him 3 different days with different times which is when he said he didn't care
Betsey says: the scheduler had put her down for the revised time, but gave me 2 alternates, which i offered.
Betsey says: crap, either way i didn't handle myself well i guess
TripleJ says: you handled yourself the best that you could.
TripleJ says: just give it time to settle bets. everything will be okay
Betsey says: here's the yucky part: i haven't seen this mean side of him since he left.... i don't like this person. i feel hurt when he talks to me
TripleJ says: then you need to back off
Betsey says: it's like i'm a nonperson who shouldn't have any feelings
TripleJ says: don't let yourself be subjected to it
Betsey says: i guess this is where my fears come out in full force
Betsey says: in order for him to feel that i accepted his decision to move out, he made sure there was no misunderstandings between us.... and the unkind words and tonality ruled his world. i'm projecting to the past, i know
Betsey says: believe me, i'm getting this... i'm just internalizing and picturing what i need to do
TripleJ says: good.
Betsey says: thanks for the empowerment
Betsey says: i'll restate goals:
Betsey says: 1. stop internalizing the source of Mr. W's feelings 2. act accordingly 3. stop pressuring him for reassurance 4. sit on the bench until the coach calls me in the game
TripleJ says: this is great Bets. you keep thinking.
Betsey says: 5. not pee on myself while i'm waiting
TripleJ says: hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Betsey says: hey i get excited
TripleJ says: hey its time for lunch. celebrating Fat Tuesday! chat in a bit?
Triple J, I hope you don't mind, but our chat was just too good for me not to remember (I don't save them, BTW).
Now I have my new goals stated. And I feel better about how I need to conduct myself!
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Well, I don't have much to report, but here it is.
On my travels after work yesterday, I decided that my best course of action in my dealings with Mr. Wonderful right now are to detach some more (lovingly, of course).
I was feeling a little edgy, which I recognize now as my trigger for crazymaking. And the urge was there in full force.
So when Mr. Wonderful called my cell while we were in Costco, I let it go to voicemail. He wanted to give me a golf tournament update and left it at that.
He called from bowling awhile later, which I found out was answering D10's voicemail call to him earlier. I "let" her answer the phone, and they addressed the problem she's having with her new reading glasses...
I also heard her say, "Dad, you won't believe it! Mom found a bowling alley for my party on Saturday night!!! She saved the day!"
I was watching Super Millionaire and not really in a mood to talk to him--because earlier, I was fantasizing about how I would tell him I was filing for D--and hoped he didn't want to talk to me.
As luck would have it, she said she wanted to watch the show (he had fortunately called during a commercial break) and had to go.
As I dropped her off at school this morning, I told her, "If I don't manage to talk to Dad today, you can tell him mac & cheese is what's for dinner (it's Ash Wednesday) and that I'll be home by 6:30 to take you and D6 to head to church."
I heard the usual groan, although she asked me to go on Monday. I swear that kid keeps me in circles. Mark my words, after getting her ashes, she'll thank me for making the effort to go...
So, Mr. Wonderful called me a few minutes ago--VERY chipper and seemingly upbeat. He asked me to share details about bowling and then gave me the golf tournament info again verbally (I guess in case I didn't understand the voicemail?).
I thanked him for the information and we then hung up.
No more initiation on my part, unless it's absolutely necessary. I will be upbeat and nice but nothing more and nothing less.
It seemed to work in the past, so I'll give it a shot again.
Another crazymaking attempt thwarted...
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
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