Wife in MLC and ready to leave #4

[Matt165]

Ok. I just don't understand any of this. My W this morning is all upset about a mistake she made paying her car. She was so upset last night and asked for my help (again) but this time in front of my D14. I decided to go ahead and help her since I don't want my D thinking I'm trying to be a jerk. So I show her how to do what she needed and this time she made a mistake that messed up her account. She tried to find a way to blame me! That didn't last.

This morning she wanted to complain to me. Looking for sympathy she tells me she has lost even more weight and actually thinks she is dying. She can't eat without feeling sick (join the club) and is afraid to exercise because she will burn more calories she can't afford. She asked me about the cell phones again and then told me her father has a low blood count, needs a transfusion, how worried she is. This is how she has been for some time, all about her and how awful her life is and she is going to die, her poor father, poor HER. She is hurting me and everyone I love. Has told me I'm to blame for her not having the life she wants and is better off without me, yet wants my sympathy and care?

Yes, I know it's a waste of time and energy to try to understand her and her thoughts and actions. It's just that I see so clearly how her actions are causing a series of events that will devastate the people I love most, not in the future but right here and now! Until now she was just planning now she is acting, big difference.

I saw her last night when she didn't think I was there and she was clearly hurting, badly. She was curled in a ball and shaking. How is this better than her past life? How is it so much better knowing that she is going to hurt her own kids and from her obvious fear maybe put herself and her own D through the same years of pain and bad feelings she had with her own father?

She told me the day before yesterday that she didn't want to go see her father in the summer but he forced her to go and those were the "best memories she has of her and her father" (yes, a direct quote). This is why she is afraid I won't force my D14 to do things with her. Why she doesn't want me to be able to say no when she tries to force her to do things with her. What she wants is to be able to tell our D14 "You're going with me and that's final!" Like her mother let her father do. I'm getting what she wants. She is so afraid that my love for my D will get in the way.

I still need to talk to her but that talk won't change a thing. She is going to think whatever she feels at any given moment is the way she has always thought and will always will forever. I can't imagine living like that. It must be a hard way to live.

Of course none of that matters the slightest to me. It doesn't change a thing about what I need to do. My path isn't clear. There are so many variables and so many things that will effect what my best course of action is. This is hard for me as my path was always clear in the past....do what is best for my family, keep my nose clean, always put my families needs ahead of my own, once the kids are in their own I can start to worry about myself and my W and what is best for us. Now that is no longer the case. My family needs me to take care if myself so I will be able to take care of them! If I don't start to be more then the best father (and until now husband) and be the best me I can I will fail all around. The rope to my W must be dropped as until it is and she feels truly "on her own" she will keep running and looking for someone to save her (like her father).

Talking things out with kids first so I can get a feel for where that will go is first. My oldest will help with that as she can help her sister. Next is money. After that will come either coming to terms with my W in a healthy way or having to fight it out in court if she won't be reasonable. This is the reason I worry about what others are telling her Wonka. She is so lost she seems to want to believe whatever her father or others say I will do and it makes her unlikely to trust me and so things will get harder than they need to be.

At least now I will be able to breathe. She will be gone but whether or not she will be reasonable is still not certain. From all I've seen from her so far and from what others here are going through and have gone through I have doubts. If only she hadn't filed before leaving things could have happened in steps. Now they are coming all at once and that isn't good!

[AJM]

Matt, even if you had done things the way she wanted, it is very unlikely that she would have been happy or trusted you. That's par for the course. I know, because I did things that way. Her words to me, "I don't trust you." Why? <shrug> Who knows?

I went the other direction and helped my ex pack. I helped her with all kinds of things. My thinking is and was, she needs a friend.

That's just not how these things work.

You need to get past the idea of thinking she'll do what she says. She won't. You need to get past the idea that she'll be "reasonable" whatever that means. She won't be. You need to get over the idea that she'll do what's best for the kids in your opinion. She won't.

The sooner you internalize that, the sooner you can drop that emotional tie and let her get through what she's doing.

If you ask me, if she's doing something she says she doesn't want to do, that's very telling about what's going on with her.

I'm not saying you need to be easy going or do something you're not comfortable with. Not in the least. But you don't need to expect different than what you're getting. And somebody has to de-escalate the tension. It won't be her.

If it wasn't her father, it would have been somebody else. We see that here all the time on these boards. I've seen it personally. Believe me, it's like watching somebody who can't make their own decisions use somebody else like a crutch. It's sad. It's difficult to see while you're also feeling the emotional turmoil and watching the trainwreck in slow motion.

But you can't change that dynamic. She made that choice. You can control your own actions and my suggestion is that you consider how you want things to go looking back on it. Act accordingly.

I think you'll find that if you drop the expectations, without saying you are, that you'll feel a lot less stress. You won't be happy about any of it, but you won't feel the stress in the same way. You have enough to worry about.

As for the talk - like I said, you know better how that should go. You're the guy on the ground. Know that kids don't like divorce or moving. Parents and home are two foundations for kids. So go gently, right?

She won't be reasonable. Nobody "wins" what they expected in a divorce. Except the lawyers. They always win (like Vegas).

Your path will become clearer as you make decisions. Wrong or right, you'll see what your path is. Don't worry so much about that. You may have to fight it out in court or you may not. Either way, it wasn't your choice but it is reality. Expect it.

It gets better Matt. Whether or not she "wakes up" is not known. Some don't. Or if they do, it's not what you expect anyway, so you don't notice it.

One thing is fairly certain - you'll be long gone and done before she is. Sad as that is, it's not your choice. It just is what it is. I know I didn't want to hear that when I heard it, but I have found it to be true in my case. I think you will find similar based on what you describe.


AJ

[uRworthy]

Matt, you keep going round and round trying to understand your wife. It isnt possible. It just isnt. You arent her. You arent in crisis. You havent suffered from depression.

When I was going through this, I needed a roadmap of how I wanted to get through it. I referred to it often. It allowed me to always know how I needed to act.

My roadmap was this. I would always act with dignity and honor regardless of how he was acting. I would not allow his actions and words to affect mine. I would not say anything bad about him to our son and I would do no harm to their relationship. I am proud to say that I kept to my roadmap.
I am very glad I did.

So, whenever he was doing something that I did not agree with or could not understand, I remembered it didnt matter. I knew who I was and how I wanted to act.

I wanted to look back on this time of my life and know that I remained true to me. That mattered a great deal to me.

Looking for sympathy she tells me she has lost even more weight and actually thinks she is dying. Then she told me her father has a low blood count, needs a transfusion, how worried she is.

That ^^^ is so sad to me, Matt. As someone who suffered through depression, I can tell you this. It is like trying to swim through mud and you are trying to grab onto anything to pull yourself out. Add in a MLC, I cannot only imagine what that feels like.

I dont think that a MLC gives you a free pass on your actions. They are responsible for those. But it does allow us a reason to understand how hard they are struggling.

This is how she has been for some time, all about her and how awful her life is and she is going to die, her poor father, poor HER. She is hurting me and everyone I love. Has told me I'm to blame for her not having the life she wants and is better off without me, yet wants my sympathy and care?

Maybe she is hurting, too.

Yes, I know it's a waste of time and energy to try to understand her and her thoughts and actions.

Yet you keep trying to do just that.

I saw her last night when she didn't think I was there and she was clearly hurting, badly. She was curled in a ball and shaking. How is this better than her past life?

It isnt better, Matt. She is in crisis. She is confused and hurting and wants it to stop. She doesnt know how to do that. So, she is trying what she thinks will get it to.

I still need to talk to her but that talk won't change a thing.

So why have it?

She is going to think whatever she feels at any given moment is the way she has always thought and always will forever. I can't imagine living like that. It must be a hard way to live.

Thats a bit of mindreading on your part. But yes, it must be a very hard way to live.

My family needs me to take care if myself so I will be able to take care of them!

Yep

She is so lost she seems to want to believe whatever her father or others say I will do and it makes her unlikely to trust me and so things will get harder than they need to be.

Dont get ahead of yourself, Matt. It doesnt serve you well. Take it one step at a time.

Matt, here's the thing about all of this. You did the best you could with the knowledge and tools you had at the time. But you could have been perfect and it wouldnt have mattered. This crisis was destined to happen. You couldnt love her out of it. You just dont have that kind of power.

So, it is best that you let go of trying to understand it. Let go of thinking shoulda, coulda, woulda. Let go of the anger and resentment.

You need to do all of that to come out of this whole.

This is tough stuff. But how you walk through it matters, Matt. It matters.

Trust me on this. You want to make this as easy as possible on your children. They are watching closely. You have been given the honor of showing them how to navigate through life's hard stuff. Show them well.

You want them to forge whatever relationship they will with their mom without any interference from you.

They know you love them. They know you care. That will not change. Just remember to be the man you want to be. Each day. Some days you will make it, some you wont. But that should always be the goal.

Control the controllables. Let the rest go. Just let it go, Matt. No more wishing things were different. No more second guessing. No more trying to understand her.

Your job now is to take care of you and your children. Your wife has to walk her journey. Your job is to get out of the way.

[Matt165]

Thanks AJ and uR,
My oldest came home from her trip today. She was only gone 2 weeks and everything has gotten so much worse than when she left! She left knowing her mom wanted to separate. She told me today she heard my W telling her father on the phone that she didn't need a lawyer, didn't want a D and wanted to take some time to at least "get her ducks in a row" before even thinking about going to see a L. In the time she was gone her mom filed, refinanced the car and rented a home! All that in the two weeks she was away.

I told her that her mom had filed and that she was moving very soon as the house she has rented is ready. My D told me that she has seen her mom going down hill and can't understand what is going on. She told me about all the times her mom told her she would never divorce. She asked why she would file without even trying a separation first. All the questions I have asked myself. I told her that I need her help getting her sister through this. She will be 19 in 2 weeks and has a lot of sway with her sister. I explained that I want both of them to have a good relationship with their mom and that she loves them both. I told her I tried and she said she and her sister know that, they have seen it. She told me that everyone she knows whose parents got D's, there was something that pushed them. Cheating, drinking, abuse, and she knows that I have never done anything like that. She told me she see's her mom acting like a teenager and at first thought it was funny but now see's the damage.

She told me that she will do all she can to help her sister. She took this really well and knows I love her and her mom but nothing can stop her from doing the things she is doing. She will be staying here with me if only because where her mom wants to move is 20 miles further from where she wants to go to college in the fall.

We decided together that it would be best if both my W and I tell her sister together. She said that my D14 will not want to believe her mom is really doing what she is and may think I am saying something that may not be true. It would be best if she heard from her mother so she knows it really is what her mom wants. Makes sense to me.

I'm much more calm than before. My anger is pretty much gone and now I'm just sad. I do know she is hurting. I do understand that, but she is making the choices she is and there is no way the things she is doing will help that. I hope she can find the answers she is looking for. I don't know how what she is doing will bring that about but she must somehow believe they will.

I must just let this happen and hope for the best for her and do my best for me and mine. Thanks again. It's going to be a long weekend!

[uRworthy]

Matt, I get that your daughter is 19. But, she is hurting, too. So, be careful not to put too much responsibility on her shoulders in regard to your youngest. She should not be the one explaining anything about your wife to her sister. She can be there to support her sister, but, she should not be the parent here, ya know?

[Matt165]

Of course uR. When I say "help" her I don't mean explain anything to her, just be there for her to have someone other then myself or her mom to talk to about things. She is going to be angry and upset and will need someone other than us to talk about it with. I will try to be as neutral as I can with her but I really can only see this from my side. As for my W, she may not even be neutral as she says she will but she says many things and even if she tries to be, just like me she really only see's things from her point of view. That, along with her unbelieveable fear that our D14 will hate her because she is the one leaving and I don't think she can be very neutral.

My D18 is taking this much better than I even hoped. I have been honest with her since B-day and it has made a difference. She is confused as to why her mom would do this but not angry, at least not openly. When we get to the point of her mom moving that may change. Remember, as of now her mom has not once said a thing to either of them that she even is thinking of doing this. She will now need to tell them that not only is she leaving but that she filed without even separating first. That is really a bad way to this! Give them some time to wrap their heads around things first, then move forward slowly would be the right thing to do. My W says she wants the "right" kind if D. The kind that doesn't "hurt" the kids. So far she is doing it the worst way possible, at least as I see it.

Of course this is par for the course with my W. Her inability to think things through is a big reason we are where we are now. Just part of her MLC mind set I guess!

[25yearsmlc]

What they said ^^^^....

It's a real gift to have a d19 like you have. Siblings can be such Godsends. You're fortunate to have her.

Question: Where are some of your d14's friends going to high school? Are any going to either of the schools being considered?

(I assume your d14 knows no one at the school near your w's new place. 20 miles is far for a 14 y/o.)

Is your d14 going to be starting at a new school, either way? And if so, I'd sure favor the school where she knows someone, b/c it's a lot of stress to begin high school under normal circumstances.

If this is a new school to her, maybe someone from church or a sports team or group she's involved in now, also goes to the high school near you? It doesn't have to have been a classmate from before.

I've moved 2 kids during high school, and it is fairly traumatic for them. Manageable, but HARD. Maybe your w thinks (IF) your d14 is beginning at a new place anyhow, it won't matter, but I think it matters a lot if she has some friends at one school, and zero at the other.

With mixed custody (of whatever percentage), someone's going to have to do a lot of driving til your d can drive herself. I guess your w could argue that 7/7 makes more sense for that reason, (and therefore, not switching every other night, for instance,) so be ready for that.


Finally, while you clearly recognize your w has had depressive episodes and had a terrible but formative relationship with her father, who has now invaded her life,

maybe you need to really take this in. She's NOT WELL. I'm not making the "in sickness and in health" argument. I'm not saying she gets a blank check for wacky choices.

I'm just saying, you are asking questions that will not yield you any useful or satisfactory answers.

I know that my h was not 'clinically ill" when he went to Alaska, but he was definitely behaving in a new, weird "blinders on" way. I could not reach him.

I wasted a solid year of my life focusing on HIM and his choices, asking "WHY???" a thousand times. I really regret that. I could have spend that time on creating a new and better life for myself and my children, that much sooner.

There are just NO real answers to the "Why?" or at least, no answers that will aid you in any way. Save yourself some head spinning and pain, and don't bother with what she's thinking/planning or doing. She's moving way too fast to figure it out anyhow.

When the dust settles, the wreckage will be evident.

Good luck

[beatrice]

Matt, I haven't posted to you before, but it is a fine line between recognising that everyone has responsibility ultimately for what they do, while also seeing that these MLC people are not thinking clearly at all.

I think taking blame out of the equation helps and inserting responsibility. In one sense they do not choose to be in MLC - they are driven - it is a bit like an addict.

I can see that you are hurting a lot. I know, I have been there and I am sorry for your pain, hurt and feeling of helplessness. When you are able to be a little more detached, (and that is something to work towards, not something that occurs overnight!) you will be able to balance compassion with accountability.

It feels personal but actually it isn't, and I have a really mean MLCer. I can see the train wreck that the poor guy has made of his life, and he still blames me for his unhappiness. I am just so grateful that I am not going through all of this turmoil.

Overall things gradually get better with us, and the more we can detach the better we get. If you examine every aciton and every hurt it is harder to recover. Not easy taking the high road, and Lord knows it took me long enough.

[25yearsmlc]

PS



I feel compelled to share two examples of women who went off the deep end. They are cautionary tales...but they're true. And no, I am not confusing any important details or facts (which I've done about half a dozen times here, in 8 years, with over 10,000 posts.)

I hope you can take these stories to heart b/c you might save yourself and your d's a lot of heartache.

One woman was married to a DBer here. HIS name was 9lives, although he may have spelled out "NineLives," but we called him "9". They had 2 boys. You may want to look up his thread. This was about 2 years ago, as best I recall.

When his wife began to behave erratically, she had an A, moved out of the house, and increased her drinking. "9" really manned up as best he could. He owned up to his own issues, became a more attentive father, and he really dug deep and worked to change HIM. And he did a lot of good work. Their ordeal was about 18 months as best I recall.

So then she got diagnosed as having bi-polar disorder. To her, it was devastating news. The enormity of that life long diagnosis overwhelmed her. She did not see it as a manageable disease (which it can be).

A few weeks after the diagnosis, she stopped treatment, and took her own life.

I'm not trying to freak you out at all. This isn't a scare tactic, okay? Like I said, it's a cautionary tale. It's so easy to get angry at our spouses when they hurt us, but gosh, your w has a troubled childhood, (I know, many of us did...but still...)

My gut says 2 things about your w. 1) she IS NOT WELL and 2) neither of you seem to have a lot of conflict resolution skills. Clearly there are tools she could use, that she has not availed herself of.

If my absentee parent invaded MY life, I KNOW I'd go see a family therapist to process it. I know this, b/c most educated people realize life throws us some curve balls and we have so many resources out there, it's foolish not to use them!

AND there is something to be said for taking the big picture view of this. Back off a minute and ask yourself, "is this behavior new AND unhealthy?" (Seems like it!)

If so, you have to stop taking it so personally, even though it does affect you. But just as 9 was only responsible for HIS behaviors
and not his wife's illness, you are not responsible for how she hears things or sees things.
It helps YOU to be able to see her point of view, but you cannot take it so personally. You wrote that You saw her curled up, and she sounds as if she was looking pitiful. I mean, Ouch...

The OTHER woman I'm reminded of by your story, is "Chris", formerly known as THE PTA MOM...I first met her 10 years ago when we moved here. IT's an upscale neighborhood, with home prices ranging from $500k - $1.5m

Our d's were in 2nd grade together. Chris reached out to invite my d over to her house b/c my d was sad to have moved where she had no friends. Our d's became bf's, and they remain close to this day. So I know Chris has a kind heart. She's very nurturing to children.
-- but she has very limited coping skills and virtually no tools for conflict resolution. Also she did not have a college degree or profession, and I know that affected her self esteem, as did her horrible childhood. She had a lot of traumas happen to her, and she was badly treated by both her parents.

When we first met, naturally I knew none of this^^. I only knew she was a hyper PTA mom. She went to school 4 days a week volunteering. Very hovering, very rigidly organized and pretty bossy with other parents. I didn't mind much b/c I knew how kind she was to my daughter.

Chris was always the Room mom, not letting others do much. She managed every detail of the lives of these tiny second grade kids...it progressed to the point where She'd correct the pieces of turkey the other moms had sliced, for the 2nd grade Thanksgiving party.

So extreme that I literally started laughing. She said It was "crucial" that we "make sure the slices are 1 inch thick" (her wording) that it was weird but hilarious, like a Saturday Night Live skit.

But shortly after that, she just crashed. We heard she was is in a hospital for "exhaustion"...

She got out 30 days later and seemed NOT hyper but super calm....almost sedated...She got sober and went to meetings. (I did not know she'd been using prescription drugs so much). I was really hopeful for her.

5 months later - Whoops! She's moved out of the family house and into a room somewhere nearby. She was openly dating a much younger man, whom she met at AA, which she stopped attending.

She got a min wage job so she could buy her... stuff. Her h informally paid her alimony. Her weight plummeted, and she'd already been thin. She looked like she had cancer.

Over the next few years, she did some heavy duty drugs, and got arrested more than once, for DUI. She also got arrested for something else involving GANG members....???

Most of this time, she'd STILL go the family home every morning to make breakfast for the kids! Like she was "Still a mom". (wth?) She'd also clean the house.

Then, some 2 years into this, I ran into her and she said she wanted to ask me something. She asked me if I thought her h "might take OW to the house someday and be around the kids".

Meaning, it had JUST occurred to her, 2 years into the ordeal, that her h MIGHT want some company and that the OW might come inside the family home. OW might interact with her children, and I guess displace Chris??

I said "Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to be upset by that?" And she paused for at least 20 seconds, THINKING...and then she said "I guess I can see what you mean..." Wow...

Then she gained A LOT of weight. She was obese. Talk about a roller coaster...mind you, her h was doing all the child rearing and laundry (despite the breakfasts) and managing a household.

As for the 3 kids at home, 2 were trying to apply to college and the youngest one, my d's age, was just watching all this....seeing this crazy person who was her mom.

Then The older d went to college and partied mightily and then dropped out. Came home. After a year, the d20 got her act together and is back in school.

Chris, meanwhile, broke her hip falling down some stairs, under the influence. She was 44 years old...She bottomed out then.

So 8 months ago Chris finally got clean/sober and began to exercise too. She lost some of the weight, she moved back into the family home. There were tensions with the adjustments being made but it was improving.

ONE month ago, her older d20 wanted to introduce her family to her first serious boyfriend.

Chris got nervous, fearful and insecure and then....DRUNK. Big disaster.

Lots of hard feelings from the d20. She's been "the mom" since Chris left the planet. The youngest D heads off in the fall. The son won't come home from college in the summers...too much drama.

I think her h is just so sad. His focus is completely on launching his kids into the world knowing two parents love them, but one is really sick.

I have seen MLCs and mental illness and those who have zero tools for handling pain, cascade into this crazy nightmare for so many.

Matt, yes, I've seen men and women lose their sh1t before. There always seem to be some horrible thing from their past, AND OR they lack coping skills for the curve balls that life throws at us. That does not justify it. IT's the closest thing I have to an explanation, along with television and Hollywood telling us how happy everyone else is, so we should be too! Whatever it takes!

I have 3 HEALTHY WELL friends who have lost children in car accidents and one was killed in a freak accident. Each parent handled it differently, 2 of them drank like fish for a year (though only at night, and not ever while driving)....

but THEY ALL got help. They all availed themselves of the resources out there It matters... regardless of whether your wife does that soon or ever, YOU CAN. So can your daughters. Please take them to a counselor. Please...

I cannot believe your w has a counselor who cannot recognize that your wife is disturbed.

Does she act different in front of the IC?

Anyhow, Keep your helmet on, and Stay out of firing range. Take care of the girls.

And Matt, Choose your battles wisely.

Not every hill is worth dying for.

Make sense?

[Wonka]

Matt,

This stood out to me:

She will now need to tell them that not only is she leaving but that she filed without even separating first.

This is the fourth or fifth time you've mentioned this. I get the sense that you really want W to tell the kids this so it doesn't make you look like the 'bad guy' thereby absolving you of this. Why are you placing this on W? I have news flash for you! Your W does NOT need to tell them if she doesn't want to at all. You cannot control this part.

Why don't you corral your daughters and tell them the facts now? We've given you some guidance and scripts to to this. What's stopping you?

Fear.