Mature Love

[ForeverYoung]

I spent much of yesterday helping my Mom work her garage sale. This is something she really enjoys doing every spring, but recent health issues has been making it more difficult for her. So I took the day off work, and got to spend some quality time with my loving mother. It was great for both of us.

After that, W and I went to a wake for my BIL's father. This was doubly stressful on my Lil sister, because she is in process of divorcing my BIL. Even so, she knew that going was the right thing to do.

The events of yesterday and the fact that I am now heading back to run Mom's garage sale this morning so she can go to the funeral, has not left me much time to stop in here. I want to go back and properly respond to many of the insightful posts once I have a chance. Thank you all.

UR, thank you for that. I realize too that I could have done a better job of apologizing. When we hurt someone, it doesn't matter that we thought our words were poorly chosen, and not what we intended to say. So really, those points should not have even been addressed by me other than to say it was not my intent to hurt you. A true apology offers no explanations, no excuses. Love ya!

[ForeverYoung]

Mach, thank you for yet another well thought out post.

I think my plan has done well at getting me, and even my wife, to where we are today... which is a pretty good place. I look around and my situation seems entirely different from most here, which I think sometimes makes it hard to relate.

I do appreciate all thoughts and advice from others. That's one way we learn.

Good stuff on rock bottom, Mach. Unless my wife suddenly changes and/or decides to up and run, which seems pretty unlikely at this point, her rock bottom seems like it will be soft... and long. Based on the progress I'm seeing, I'd say there's a possibility she may even have already hit it, or is still in it now. But that is just my educated guess, based on what I'm seeing from my up close point of view. Who knows?

I think W and I are close enough now, that we do need to start talking about some of the big things. Wonka, thank you for your post advising how to do this in small bits. So while I know I can't fix her issues, I also can't avoid the elephant in the room forever and expect things to improve. I tossed out a few comments a few nights ago, and it went well. W was not only receptive and engaged, but seemed appreciative that I brought it up. I will update more regarding this in a separate post as we move forward with it.

Either we are truly done with the marriage, or we are still holding on to hope. On this I believe there is no middle ground. It seems to me, that before we are done, we will vacillate back and forth many times, as we struggle to come to a decision on such an important part of our life. Like I've been doing!

"You may very well be able to keep status quo for the rest of your life with her, and if you do ? Then you have to accept that it may never change from what it is now. It may never grow and be different."

I have been considering the possibility of a life long, non-physical relationship with my wife for quite a while now. Could / would I do it? I don't know. Thankfully, I don't have to decide now.

"As I said before, I just want you to be brutally honest with what you are seeing..."

Now I have a few new perspectives to help me do that.^^^

"Do things because they are what YOU want to do..."

Which is why I started to reach out and initiate touch. At some point we have to just be ourselves, go for what we want and let the chips fall where they may. No fear.

"Not because they are the things that you feel that the Marriage wants to do..."

I hope that it's plenty clear by now that saving my marriage (and building a new and better one) IS what I want to do! So for me, they are one and the same.

"If this is your plan, then you need to have more patience than you have ever had before in your life, and then some more after that...."

And this,^^^ is what I keep coming back to.

"Try not to interchange your approach either..."

I haven't yet.

"I would assume that her sexual abuse is tied very strongly to the issues behind the MLC issues."

I would assume so also, but the fact is I really don't know this to be the case... or to what extent if it is. I suspect she might not either. I have done some research on the subject a while back on sword dance warrior, (thank you again, T2) and probably should do some more. Thank you for the book you suggested, Wonka.

"Your spouse may eventually come through the fog, or the tunnel that they are in. There will be no guarantee that the relationship will fail or succeed, although I can tell you this. Nothing will EVER be the same after that."

"What does that mean to you ???"

It means that after 35 years together, I need to hang around and SEE what's on the other side of this crises.

[ForeverYoung]

Looking back on the many posts here and still thinking…

I do not envy the position you find yourself in. I can only imagine how hard this has to be on YOU and YOUR W. Personally, I think it is always easier to call it a day when you are dealing with a spewing, cheating WAS. Then again, the decision to end a M is NEVER an easy one.

Boy, you got that right, Eric. Verbal commitment or not, my W is still in the M. Here and present. We do things together and get along well. She does nice things for me, and I for her. She is pleasant to be around. I like coming home to her, and like when she comes home. That's why I'm still here.

Is this "scraps" just because she's not ready to jump back in bed with me? I guess it all depends on perspective, but I do know many have stood in much more horrible situations, for even greater periods of time.

When you think of no regrets I think the tendency is to think about it from the perspective of leaving a R. However, I believe that it goes both ways. You do not want to STAY in a R that you will ultimately have regrets about. If staying in this R with your W will result in you having regrets about HOW long you stood and waited… I think you should consider this as well.

I think so too! Like most everyone here, I too want to be able to say I gave my M my all. My best. The most I could. I’ve also often said that I’d rather error on the side of holding on too long, trusting/hoping too much, than to give up too soon.

Bottom line: At least for now, my wife is still worth it.

Was that ever dealt with? For someone with sexual abuse in her history, this must have been a huge violation of trust...not that it wouldn't be otherwise.

Not yet, Heather. With MLC and all it couldn't have been. Time and space was the necessary prescription, along with building of trust. Now that we are farther along in these areas, hopefully we are nearing a place where we can address this issue.

[ForeverYoung]

Still cruising along, enjoying my new life. Still determined to not give up on my W or my M.

I joined a kickball meet up group. Looking forward to my first game this Sunday.

Back around BD W took up running. Joined a running group and wanted it to be "her" thing. (didn't want me to join her) I encouraged her. Next Saturday we will be running a 5k together.

[ForeverYoung]

Due to a pet emergency I wasn’t able to make it to my kickball game. Unfortunately, one of our beloved pets had to be euthanized. It was a very sad day. W and I held each other and cried as we stayed with him until the end. He will be missed greatly.

W will be out of town 4 nights for work. She wasn’t looking forward to going, as it will only make it more difficult for her to meet the deadlines on the projects she is responsible for. Probably the best thing to help her get over our loss though.

I told her the remaining pets and I would miss her while she is gone, as I gave her a head and shoulders massage last night. She thanked me afterwards. This morning I packed some vitamins for her, because I knew it would be a struggle for her to eat as well as we do at home, while away. Our homemade morning protein/fiber/fruit shakes will be missed the most.

W and I will be in contact via email, and she returns on Friday. We then do our 5k run together Saturday morning.

I will be busy caring for our pets, running the household, doing a few projects, and of course going to work 8 hours a day. As always, I will make time for physical training, and some reading. It’s funny how I feel like I continue to grow, even though my pants are still the same size.

[daring]

I'm so sorry to hear about your pet. I'm glad you and your W could be there for each other and provide comfort.
You are so patient and thoughtful with W, it's very obvious how much you care.

Good luck at the 5 k! And by the way- love the new quote. I'm aiming for that- psychotic optimist- has a nice ring to it!!

[job]

FY,
I'm very sorry about your pet. They become family members in just a short time and provide us w/much entertainment and comfort during their life time. I do hope that both you and your w can pull out those fond memories whenever you think about your pet.

I do hope things are going smoothly this week and your w returns home in a good frame of mind and ready to do the run.

Good luck this weekend!

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks for the kind words, daring and job.

Today's run went well, even though it seemed it might not at first. W was tired from just returning from working out of town the night before, and woke up in pain. Once we got to the race though, and my parents and Lil sis were there to cheer us on, things improved greatly. After the race there was a pancake breakfast that we all enjoyed together.

I missed receiving a medal by less than a minute... I should've never stopped at that stupid garage sale!

[BrightFuture]

FY, sorry for the loss of your pet. I remember when we lost our dog a few year ago (about a year before the BD), we actually became closer to each other. We both grieved. I was devastated to the point that I was a bit detached from H. Interestingly, he started to pursue me a little at that time. Then I became clingy again, sigh…

Yes, the garage sale will do it for you, LOL.

I’m glad you are making some progress with your W. I wish you lots of patience. Your W doesn’t realize how lucky she is.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks Bright. Unfortunately, our dog will be next, and it will be even harder on us than the last pet was. I remember when our first dog passed, it did draw W and I closer.

Your W doesn’t realize how lucky she is.

I know, right?

Our anniversary is next week. (31!) Because our dog now has special needs, we didn't feel right doing an out of town trip like we've done the past two years, leaving her with others. So we'll both take the day off work, and will do something locally instead. A chance to connect, and maybe start discussing some of the Big Issues.

When I recently asked W how I was doing by her, she thought for a moment and said "fine", in a very matter of fact manner. We then talked for a bit about what is important in life. Hopefully, we'll be able to continue to build on this on our Anniversary.