Wife in MLC and ready to leave #4

[Matt165]

Ok. In the summer it would be easy. The 7/7 might work it all depends on what my d wants, if she has friends that she wants to do things with and when. The school thing is going to be hard. My W is locked into the school near her being "better" even though they are rated the same. But in general it would be very liberal with weekends and holidays for non living with S. One big thing is going to be how long my D is left alone in the evenings. This is when kids get into trouble and my W works late almost every day. She also goes away for weeks at a time to another city for work and has told me she would leave my D with her "friends".. I don't think that is a good idea either. For now if she so badly wants to try 7/7 I would even do that if she wouldn't tell me that she won't put it in the petition that if my D objects or one of us do, D has final say on who she lives with mostly. I also don't like that my W wants me to "force" my D to do the 7/7 telling her she has no choice and MUST go no matter how she feels.

I'm telling you that is what is killing my W right now. What she thinks proves I don't want my D to be with her mom is that I want my D to have final say and I don't want my W to be the one who has final say, even over my D, in the divorce decree. Other than that we aren't far apart. Also she is assuming that my D will pick me. With her mom acting like she is my D may worry and pick her!

[Wonka]

This doesn't answer my question about 50-50. What do you want to see happening with this?

[cat04]

No it doesnt.

[Matt165]

There aren't many good ways to do 50/50. If my W would just not move 20 miles away and stay close then the 7/7 wouldn't be a problem. I would need to know more about what is going on in my D's life before I put her on any schedule. To start off I don't mind the 7/7 in the summer if my W MUST move so far away. The problem comes with my W's attitude that I need to tell my D that she MUST go, she has no choice. I also think that my lack of confidence in my W's mothering skills and ability to both work the way she does AND take care of her D have me quite worried to just say yes to 50/50 without an out.

As for how 50/50 would look during the school year, I think that is almost impossible as it depends on what school she is in, what she is doing, who her friends are, etc. Like I said, if I thought my D was OK with her mother, that she would get the best attention possible from her mom and she went to school where her mom wants to live, I would give up 50/50 custody during the school year so she wouldn't have to leave her friends and school events every other week.

As for what that would look like right now...First I would ask my D what she wanted to do (giving her options). If she thought 7/7 was OK for the summer I would be willing to try that but by no means would I tell my D she MUST do that.

You see the problem with 50/50 in my case (now that I'm thinking about it) is that it requires trust in the other parent. My W seems to have lost trust in me because of what other people have told her what I would do and because of one time where I cried in front of my D. (it wasn't even that much, just a couple tears, lasted maybe 2 min.'s? Just an excuse by W to blame me if my D is angry)and me because of what my W has done for the last few years (all of which you heard about, mostly). The fact that my W can't seem to be able to keep a thought in her head, no matter how important, for more than a week doesn't help either. I understand that all this is MLC symptoms but it still makes me worry about who and what my D may be exposed to.

So I guess I can't tell you exactly what 50/50 would look like until my D is part of the conversation and my W has made it clear that won't happen until we have an agreement in place! I guess what we need is for us both to just stop letting outside forces get involved and just try and work this out.

I really think my W thinks I wanted to stop her from leaving and she was right for a long time. Then I was fine with her leaving but not having to get a D as this would give everyone time to adjust but she just couldn't get it in her head that I didn't want to stop her because of what others were saying. It scared her. Now she see's me retaliating by hurting her in ways that she SHOULD know I never would. Of course one of the things that she says is the reason for her wanting to leave the M was "not trusting" me. Couldn't tell me why she felt that way, she just did and that goes with the trust issues she has always had since I've known her.

I need to get her to understand I really don't want to stop her from going. That what upsets me most is how she is letting other people tell her how I will act and I haven't done a single one of the things she is so afraid I will do. One time weeping is just me showing emotion, NOT manipulation. If I pretended to be upset, that's manipulation! The problem is getting her to stay calm as she is ready to explode any sec.!!

[TSquared2]

Matt,

I noticed a change when recently when you weren't emotional, then after the blow up with W, you are clouded/unfocused/spun up again.


When I first got here I was a wreck, emotionally, a lot of the time. It was affecting my health, my interactions with the boys, and W.

Since you picked up my reference to Dune on another thread, I'm going to guess you like sci-fi.

I suggest you channel your inner Mr. Spock. BE Mr. Spock.

You are male and I believe have technical background, so you can put logic and brain ahead emotions rather easily when you have to. When the situation calls for it.

It's calling.

I figured out how to look at my W as a scientist conducting some crazy experiment. My schickt here became "goggles and clipboard" making dispassionate observations of the alien.

I was Mr. Spock (most of the time).

When I could do that, I didn't spin so much, I accepted this sucky reality. And reality simply IS. It's neither positive nor negative, it just IS.... WE determine whether it's positive or negative for us. And we can control our perception.

It got so much better for ME, and my KIDS, when I accomplished ^^^ (and actually for W too, as an unintended side effect). It was a great opportunity to model for my boys how a man handles adversity.

Please accept that this is your reality, and there is no out of it, only THROUGH it.... And what would Spock do? How would Spock get through this?

Now, you have a pretty direct question up there ^^^ to answer.

Answer AS IF you are Mr. Spock.

Live long and Prosper...

[Wonka]

Matt,

There aren't many good ways to do 50/50. If my W would just not move 20 miles away and stay close then the 7/7 wouldn't be a problem. I would need to know more about what is going on in my D's life before I put her on any schedule. To start off I don't mind the 7/7 in the summer if my W MUST move so far away. The problem comes with my W's attitude that I need to tell my D that she MUST go, she has no choice. I also think that my lack of confidence in my W's mothering skills and ability to both work the way she does AND take care of her D have me quite worried to just say yes to 50/50 without an out.

As for how 50/50 would look during the school year, I think that is almost impossible as it depends on what school she is in, what she is doing, who her friends are, etc. Like I said, if I thought my D was OK with her mother, that she would get the best attention possible from her mom and she went to school where her mom wants to live, I would give up 50/50 custody during the school year so she wouldn't have to leave her friends and school events every other week.

As for what that would look like right now...First I would ask my D what she wanted to do (giving her options). If she thought 7/7 was OK for the summer I would be willing to try that but by no means would I tell my D she MUST do that.

You see the problem with 50/50 in my case (now that I'm thinking about it) is that it requires trust in the other parent. My W seems to have lost trust in me because of what other people have told her what I would do and because of one time where I cried in front of my D. (it wasn't even that much, just a couple tears, lasted maybe 2 min.'s? Just an excuse by W to blame me if my D is angry)and me because of what my W has done for the last few years (all of which you heard about, mostly). The fact that my W can't seem to be able to keep a thought in her head, no matter how important, for more than a week doesn't help either. I understand that all this is MLC symptoms but it still makes me worry about who and what my D may be exposed to.

So I guess I can't tell you exactly what 50/50 would look like until my D is part of the conversation and my W has made it clear that won't happen until we have an agreement in place! I guess what we need is for us both to just stop letting outside forces get involved and just try and work this out.

I really think my W thinks I wanted to stop her from leaving and she was right for a long time. Then I was fine with her leaving but not having to get a D as this would give everyone time to adjust but she just couldn't get it in her head that I didn't want to stop her because of what others were saying. It scared her. Now she see's me retaliating by hurting her in ways that she SHOULD know I never would. Of course one of the things that she says is the reason for her wanting to leave the M was "not trusting" me. Couldn't tell me why she felt that way, she just did and that goes with the trust issues she has always had since I've known her.

I need to get her to understand I really don't want to stop her from going. That what upsets me most is how she is letting other people tell her how I will act and I haven't done a single one of the things she is so afraid I will do. One time weeping is just me showing emotion, NOT manipulation. If I pretended to be upset, that's manipulation! The problem is getting her to stay calm as she is ready to explode any sec.!!

^^ Is that how you're going to present 50-50 to your lawyer?!

If my W would just not move 20 miles away and stay close then the 7/7 wouldn't be a problem.

'If, if'...no use at all. The current reality is that W is planning on moving and moving forward with divorce. Drop those what ifs...a complete waste of your energy.

I also think that my lack of confidence in my W's mothering skills and ability to both work the way she does AND take care of her D have me quite worried to just say yes to 50/50 without an out.

Uh? "An out"??! There's no out in a custody agreement. An out as in having your W committed?? Is that what you're thinking here?

As for how 50/50 would look during the school year, I think that is almost impossible as it depends on what school she is in, what she is doing, who her friends are, etc.

It is not how it works. 50-50 is deciding who the primary parent is and coming up with an alternate schedule between you and W. This happens regardless of where D14 lives.

First I would ask my D what she wanted to do (giving her options).

NO!!! You work out the arrangements through the lawyers. Don't drag D14 into this "negotiation" with W. This is to be handled between adults. You've already communicated to your L that you want primary custody. That's the hill you're willing to die on...right?

You see the problem with 50/50 in my case (now that I'm thinking about it) is that it requires trust in the other parent

Nope. It doesn't at all. The agreement clearly spells out what you two hammer out and is "approved" by the presiding judge. You are seeing it as a problem because your emotions are clouding your perceptions.

I mean...your W isn't an axe murder. Right?

I guess what we need is for us both to just stop letting outside forces get involved and just try and work this out.

This is code word for telling FIL to f*ck off. Still blaming FIL. Your W made this choice so it is all on her. You cannot talk rationally with Crazy. The sooner you accept this fact, the less you'll spin.

I need to get her to understand I really don't want to stop her from going. That what upsets me most is how she is letting other people tell her how I will act and I haven't done a single one of the things she is so afraid I will do.

You put an awfully lot of weight on what W and other people think/view you. You don't NEED to get W to understand your POV. She has hers. You have yours. Doesn't mean she needs to agree with it. You don't agree with hers anyway and it shows in several ways in your interactions with W!

[Matt165]

Outside forces are not my FIL. Outside forces are the people who keep telling her how I'm going to react. Her lawyer's asst. telling her that "from what this says your H must have said he wants full custody with limited visitation".

Wonka, I disagree with you about not involving my D14. I just don't see how asking her what she wants to do is wrong as that is what the court will do in the end. She isn't so young that she can't make a decision about where she wants to live primary. And, by the way, you said 50/50 they pick someone to be primary parent. I want that to be me as I do not trust my W to be honest with me or "change her mind" or have that kind of power over me and my R with my D! Not when she can't keep to anything that she has ever agreed to in the last year!

So, no IF's? OK if we have no If's I will want my D in school in my area, not my W's. My W has not moved yet and "if" she really cares about what's best for her D and not to just be around her friends, than she can move somewhere closer. There is If's involved and always will be. If she plays a sport and they have a game a certain night of the week or practice certain nights. There is no black and white here Wonka. Even my W said "We can do whatever we want to if we agree to joint", the problem comes in when she says she wants me to "force" my D to do what she wants at first.

I don't have to do 50/50 nor is it something I think is defin. in my D's best interest for all the reasons I just said (works late all the time, has to go away for work, etc.)the reason I put weight on what my W thinks and how she listens to others is she freaks out thinking I'm going to be so dang awful, runs from room to room and won't listen. I don't care what other people SAY I'll do I just do what I think is right. My W has started to see evil where none exists. And where in my interactions do I not agree with her POV? I never had a chance! She wouldn't talk if I said anything that sounded like I was disagreeing, she stopped listening, talk over me or left the room yelling!

No I am not thinking of having her committed but I also don't have to agree to 50/50 either. Another part in this is her sister who is coming home tonight. I am almost certain that she will stay with me and not her mother. I hope she doesn't just move in with her boyfriend now as she may think about that now. I really think my D14 is better off with her sister around. They don't always agree but in last year they have gotten closer and I really think they are good for each other. Another "if".

And if we can't understand each others point of view we can't come to an agreement and the court will decide and they will ask my D so we come full circle back to D having to decide where she wants to live.

It's sad but with my W so scared I just don't see how this is going to go smoothly. It bothers me that she is tieing me living at our home to whether I do what SHE wants when it comes to custody! That is blackmail! And she thinks I'm unreasonable? Don't you think if her D was going to be with me most of the time that would be more of a reason for her to want us in the house she grew up in?

Why exactly do you feel it is wrong to ask my D14 where she wants to live? Why is that so bad? I could see if she hated one parent but she loves her mother and doesn't want to hurt her anymore than she would want to hurt me! She has a right to go where she feels best as she already will have so much change in her life.

[Wonka]

Matt,

I'm going to be brief here as to get to the real heart of this matter.

Why exactly do you feel it is wrong to ask my D14 where she wants to live? Why is that so bad?

You misunderstood me.

This is what you wrote:

First I would ask my D what she wanted to do (giving her options). If she thought 7/7 was OK for the summer I would be willing to try that but by no means would I tell my D she MUST do that.

You are essentially asking D14 to be a part of the negotiations in an indirect way. This is dragging D14 into the discussions with you and W. Not good.

What needs to happen first is this:

Inform both of your daughters at the same time that you and W will be getting a divorce. [use the suggested speech posted here as a starting point]

Then, just maybe, D14 will reveal her fears, thoughts, and perspective of this announcement which MIGHT entail telling you two her preferences on where she lives.

[Wonka]

Separately, you work with your OWN L on what you want in custody and divorce.

All we know, from what you post here, is that you want primary with D14.

Ok...what about the rest? What are your non-negotiables??

You really need to think through every detail and then lay it all out to your lawyer. Then he'll be clear on what you want and don't want. He'll use that as a framework in discussions with W's L.

Of course..."outside" forces are W's L and FIL. That is how people divorce. Having two lawyers represent their clients.
What's the mystery here?

Friends telling W what she wants to hear. Nothing new here. It is all blather and why do you give this so much weight?! Who cares what other people think of you?

Her lawyer's asst. telling her that "from what this says your H must have said he wants full custody with limited visitation".


Do you have a solid proof of this ^^? How do you know this factually? Did you plant a bug in their office? You don't know at all. Major mindreading.

[Matt165]

No mind reading on what her L asst said this is an exact quote from my W. As for the rest I see what you are saying. My W had someone call and leave a message for my W while D and I were making a pizza today. It was her rental agent telling her her new place is ready to move in. You should have seen the look on my D14's face. Still my W hasn't spoken to her. I didn't because her sister called and said she would be back tonight and I thought it best to wait as she and I both can talk to my younger together. Turned out she was delayed and now won't be back until tomorrow morning.

On another front I think my W may have a date for a wedding she is going to tomorrow. Not sure but it seems that way. Funny but I really don't care at this point. I really don't. I need to speak to my W and let her know that I really don't care to stop her from leaving as I think she really thinks I do. I need to ask her to please be calm and listen. I have no intention of taking your D from you or trying to make her hate you. I don't even want you to stay the way you are now, not taking any responsibility for any part in the break down of our M. I also feel you need time on your own to see if that is the secret to being happy. Maybe your right and it is. Maybe not but until you try you will never be able to be in the type of R that I want. I don't hate you, in fact I still care about you but not the same way or the way you seem to think I want from you. I do think you made a mistake by moving to D so suddenly but that is your choice to make. I am willing to be flexible when it comes to custody but I do want to be primary. I will give my best to get D14 to spend 50% of her time with you at least in the very beginning but if she decides she would like to stay with me most of the time after, I am in favor of that. I hope that some day you understand that there is much more going on within you than a bad marriage and I hope that when you do I will not have moved so far past from you that I won't be able to help you if you need it.

I have no desire to hurt my W. I just know I must do what's best for my D. I really don't think my W is in the right mind to even come close to taking care of her. She is just too caught up in her own selfishness and her dad's being sick and her wanting his attention to handle all that she will have to alone. She really wants to believe she will find happiness just by being on her own, not part of a couple, and that is just fantasy that will backfire on her. In the meantime I can't waste any more time or energy on her as I must take care of so much more including my D's and how hurt they will feel. She will either find what she is looking for or she won't. That is totally on her now.