Wife in MLC and ready to leave #4

[25yearsmlc]

Please identify who is speaking to whom, in this sentence of yours:

She had her L call and tell her that my L is asking for full custody and she freaked out telling me that I was an evil person who wants to manipulate my D to hate her because I'm so upset about her leaving me and just like her dad said, I'm going to be horrible.


you have 2 daughters, right?

Assuming I understood what that ^^ sentence means, this is all about the younger one, the 14 y/o? (B/C I assume the older daughter is off at college, or will be soon?) And yet this is the ignored daughter that your FIL wished away?

Last I checked, the law in Texas says the 14 y/o gets to choose.

When the law is on your side, there's nothing to really argue about, imo.

If your daughter does not want a 7 days/days schedule, and if it is as disruptive as you said, it won't happen.

9/10 of parents who are not chosen by the child to have primary custody, argue that the other parent has bad mouthed them. Don't do it b/c you can have custody rights damaged (it's called Parental Alienation) or withdrawn. (That is not an accusation that you have bad mouthed her. It's a statement of legal fact).

If your w continues to rant the way you describe, and if you remain calm as you describe, it does not help your w in any way.

I would not lose sleep over this.

Sometimes you have to just sit on the curb and watch the MLC parade go by...get some popcorn and a drink. It's going to be a long parade...
.

[Wonka]

Matt,

I'm going to block out the white noise in the post and narrow down to your daughter. That jumped out at me the most and my heart bleeds for her from afar.

Everyone,
She had her L call and tell her that my L is asking for full custody and she freaked out telling me that I was an evil person who wants to manipulate my D to hate her because I'm so upset about her leaving me

Why are you surprised to hear W saying this ^^ as it is her perception which is supported by this:

When I told her I wanted my D to choose, she freaked out and ran away, never let me finish my sentence.

That is manipulation in my book. Why would you even say this? Oh my gosh! To put that on the tender shoulders of a young teen at 14 isn't cool at all!!! Put yourself in her shoes. She'd vomit at the thought that she is responsible for choosing to live with one of you. Let's say D14 "picks" to live with her mother...result? You're unhappy. Or D14 "picks" to live with her father...result? W is unhappy. She'll eventually come to believe that ONLY she could prevent your divorce. What a burden!!!!

The pair of you will need to work this arrangement with the lawyers and come to an agreement.

She KNOWS my D will choose me because she hasn't been a mother for YEARS!

This isn't based on fact. It is based on your JUDGMENTAL assumption that your W is a "bad" mother. Have you or D directly told W that D has chosen to live with you? That is operating on the knowledge that your daughter has already been told about the divorce and her mother's move. I have not seen that posted here. Unless I missed it somewhere.

Have either one of you told your daughters of the impending divorce? Not now when your emotions are running high from the blow-up. At some point, it will need to happen sooner or later.

I have plenty to say about your comments about FIL and other white noise in your post. However, for now...I want you to pay attention to HOW you are conducting yourself when it comes to your daughters. Especially 'making' D14 to choose between her father and mother! How insane!!!

[Wonka]

25,

The law as you say below may be cut and dried. However what about the emotional repercussions on D14 in 'making' this choice, if it ever comes down to this?

Last I checked, the law in Texas says the 14 y/o gets to choose.

When the law is on your side, there's nothing to really argue about, imo.

Isn't it the parents' job to try shelter children from the emotional, drawn-out divorce proceedings? Dealt between two adults without any spill over into their children's sphere.

This isn't a Kramer vs. Kramer movie....but real life!

[25yearsmlc]

Wonka

I get what you are saying. Truly. At the age of 14, a judge will ask a "normal" adolescent (not a special needs or learning disabled, etc) what they want AND why.

My brother fought for half custody and his d's were all asked WHY they wanted that as well. They gave pretty good reasons "at mom's house, it's quiet and we spend a lot of time just us" and "my dad's house has a lot of his family there and there are a lot of cousins to play with so we like BOTH"...and that's what they got.

But it's not quite the same as putting her in the witness stand and boldly asking HER and HER ONLY, to choose.

Btw, that ^^ event, actually did happen to my mil, many years ago.

I can honestly say that from HER description of the court room scene that took place in California about 60 years ago, it was traumatic.

And it changed her life forever. She chose her father, who was warm and who was surrounded by siblings (i.e. her aunts and uncles) whereas her mother had remarried a man whom mil did not know.

She and her mother never had a good bond after that, and she was an only child. (I cannot say they had a good bond before that tbh, but still...) My mil was screwed up by that and later would desperately try to regain her mother's approval and "make up for" not choosing her when she was 9.

It was a big fat source of pain for my mil. As she faced terminal cancer years later (in 2010) and her own mother remained alive, they literally fought about it THEN!

Like they had to hash it out before my mil could die in peace. Made a sad situation into a full blown nightmare.

Food for thought...

[25yearsmlc]

PS

Courts strongly favor joint custody. That doesn't mean equal time, per se. It does mean equal rights in important matters like schools and religious training, etc.

I don't know what the 7/7 means. If it's 2 miles away and she gets the stability of one week in one place and then another week elsewhere, then it might sound reasonable ON PAPER, but from what Matt says, it is very onerous.

I'm not clear about why that is. But if it is onerous or creates havoc in the d's life (more than the divorce itself, that is), then I doubt a court would enforce it UNLESS the d really wanted that.

Does that clarify it? I mean, I totally get your concern about protecting the child,

but consider the above scene I described for my mil (though I know, it was a long time ago). She was being asked to move in with her mother and some guy she'd barely met, instead of staying in her home area and around her 2 uncles and 3 aunts, who doted on her. (OF all the Russian immigrants, she was the only child to survive so she was a big deal in her dad's family, as were our children, the only descendants).

As bad as making her choose was, (her mother's reaction sukked btw) it would have been worse, imo, to just tell a kid "your parents broke up and one of them is removing you from the other one's life pretty much and say 'hi' to your new dad"...

I've seen kids in the military get yanked from their homes and moved across the world to be with one parent only and sometimes it's not the parent they wanted...

and I've seen remarriages and crazy commutes in which the new stepdad flies to the old home of his "new" kids to see their biological father, and then stepdad flies back to his new home to his new wife, (their mom). Why? B/C the mom did not have the guts to face her ex h, the kids dad. It was a lousy thing to do to everyone.

Anyhow, more food for thought. I think it's crucial that Matt NOT color all his comments with his opinions b/c courts will want only the facts. The more white noise that gets tossed in, the less credibility he'll have or the more the court will want to hurry up.

Questions to expect are NOT about who did what to whom,

BUT Where will w live, and how far away? How will d be transported to school and back, etc. Health care, childcare (less important at this age than younger ones)

and unless she's found unfit, I'd say joint custody will be awarded and some division of physical custody will be the only thing remaining in dispute

Narrow down what is actually being disputed. I doubt you can prove she's unfit to have ANY custodial rights, so some visitation will happen in all likelihood.

But I'm going to back away from more legal speak b/c Matt has a L who can better advise on his situation.

But Wonka, I get what you are saying...

[Matt165]

I will answer you both Wonka and 25,
First, the way my W wants it, she wants HER to be primary and get to have final say on where my D lives. She wants to move 20 miles away and have her go there 7 days, here 7 days which I think is crazy! If we lived in at least the same town, I could see this. She wants to live there not me.

The way the law is in this state, the child over age 12 has the final say in where they and with whom they live. It may suck but that's how it is. I want my D to have a relationship a good one with her mother. My W is so sure that I am going to poison her against her and manipulate her even though I have never done anything to make her think this!

She says I told her I would keep D away from her but what she is talking about is she was saying that she wanted to take her out of state to live with her father for the summer and I told her I wouldn't let her do that. She had her mother say bad things about her father when she was a teen. The things she said were true but that doesn't matter as my W is right that you don't say them to kids. This is what she fears so much, she can't even listen unless I agree with her exactly.

My L couldn't believe that she thought 7 and 7 will work if she lived that far away. She keeps saying "Everyone keeps saying you will do awful things. I didn't want to believe it but it's true!" If I say I think it should be left up to D.

Wonka, my W has shown that she will work late most nights and not even bother to cook dinner for my D. She will need to travel for weeks at a time for her job and I'm supposed to be alright with her leaving D with her "friends"? She says she picked the place to live for the schools but the real reason is her friends all live there. I looked up the schools and they are rated the same.

My W seems to think that I should tell my D that she MUST live with her mother for 7 days and me 7 days. Give her a chance to see where she likes it best. This is not doing what's in her best interest. I am not on board that the school is the right place for my D. the right place would be private school but that won't happen now. It's not about where she likes best, it's about who she is better off with and in my opinion that is me. That is not to say that I don't think she should see her mother but damn if I'll sign something that gives my W the power to decide where is best. She wanted to send her 1000 miles away to be with the most horrible man I know. I don't care if it is her grandfather!

As it stands now my W is using money as a leverage against me! She will "let" me live in the house that's paid for as long as I agree to what she wants with my D. She said as long as we split 50/50 I can live here until she's 18 and then sell it and give her half. If I have full custody we have to sell it right away and split the money! She is trying to blackmail me! This is why she is trying to get the car out of my name before the court can stop her! (Yes mind reading but I think I have a point).

Wonka, I wish it could be that I trusted my w to be a great mom for my D. The last few years have shown me I can't. From forgetting about mandatory school meetings or refusing to do anything with her to telling me she can fend for herself when there is nothing for her to eat. This will now be a hellish experience that didn't have to be that way.

[Matt165]

Hi 25,
First, lets forget about the white noise. I know it was there I was just bleeding when I wrote it! This is the facts.... W doesn't seem to think at all about older D. It's like she isn't even going to be part of this! The first time she has said her name was tonight when she said D14 would need to share a room ( but added she didn't think my D18 will stay with her since I'm closer to her boyfriend (which is not the real reason)! My W is moving 20 miles away to a different town in a different county. She wants my D to spend 7 days there 7 here which I find disruptive and stupid. I don't think the schools are any better there than if she stayed here and went to school although W claims school is why she is moving there. (If not a lie it is at least a self deception as she is going where most of her friends live).

My W freaks out if all I say is I don't want to sign anything that doesn't say my D has final say, not my W in where she wants to live. She brought up (again) the one time I became teary taking my D to school saying that was me manipulating her. No it was me being upset that I was yelling at my D when it was W that I was angry at. So you can see that if she thinks a genuine show of emotion that wasn'tt even about her but about my feeling I had hurt my D is "manipulation" how hard it is for her not to see manipulation in anything that doesn't just agree with her.

The worst part of this is that if she would just calm down and talk to me, we aren't far apart on this. I do want her in my D's life as she's her mother. I don't agree that she should go to the school my W wants just because she thinks it's better. If she was going to school down there and I thought my W was a fine mom I would just do weekends and let D live down there as that's where her friends and life will be. This is what my W hopes to accomplish by sending her to school where she lives.

In the last year my W and I have disagreed on how best to raise our D. My W has disregarded my wishes, lied to me, dismissed my D, missed every school meeting, left my D on her own, the list goes on. I just don't trust her to do what is best for her. She is just too selfish the way she is now. My W also tells me I have 30 min to tell her what I want to do! I tell her I would like to talk to my L and again she freaks out saying that "proves" I don't want her to see her D and now all this is going to be hard when it shouldn't be.

In the first part of my post let me tell you who's saying what... My W got a phone call and was on a long time, she got off and told me we had to talk in private right away. She tells me according to what my lawyer said to her lawyer I want full custody with CS and to keep her away from our D. When I said all I told the lawyer was I want what's best for my D and I think that she is old enough to decide for herself and that is what I want, she gave me the "look of disbelieve and head shake of dismissal". That conversation started this whole thing that now will end any good will either of us had for the other and make a decent divorce impossible.

The reason I will lose sleep is that just by saying where my D can hear that I'm trying to manipulate her, my W is manipulating my D herself. I also will need to move out of my paid off home (that was paid off before my W went back to work) and try to get it into good enough shape to sell it. I find my W saying that about the house very sick as she will punish me if I don't go along with her on everything and at he same time keeps saying "I would never do that to you". Trying to make herself out to be some kind of victim. Just look at what she is saying, the people who back her (everyone according to her lingo) all are telling her she is or will be a victim. Even her father who screwed her mother in their D is saying not to let herself be a victim (something she sees her mom as being and hates).

[cat04]

Matt,

I wasn't reading anything into what you wrote.

I was trying, like I have done in the past, and like others have been trying to do with you, to get you to see what your words look like to other people.

You come across very judgemental and very black and white about many many things. Whether that is your intention or not, it is what happens.

And I see it in this conversation about custody of your D. I am not saying you are right or wrong in how you feel about it or that your motivations are less than for what you BELIEVE is best for your D, (I agree that a 20 mile separation doesn't work well for consistency in school attendance or the development of friendships) however, I see no give from your end. Just like there is no give from your W on this.

While I may not agree with everything 25 says and I find her confusing of facts here and with other posters to be a bit disrespectful and careless to the person she is writing to, I respect her journey and experience. I feel that she has a lot to offer, although sometimes people aren't in the right "place" to hear it sometimes.

Let the L handle the legal aspects. Compromise will be necessary from both of you. However that is most likely NOT going to be achieved during highly emotional conversations.

I realize that right now your world as you knew it is crashing in.

We have all been there.

You have a lot of work to do Matt whether you realize it or not.

You are not a victim. You are not a martyr. You are allowing yourself to fall into both of those roles pretty well though.

Other than not separating and not getting a D, because those things are beyond your control, what can YOU do to make this situation better for all of you?

[Matt165]

Cat,
I have tried so very hard to give my W whatever she has wanted now and in the past. All that has gotten me is what you see now, a woman who expects that EVERYTHING will be HER way. What "give" do you want from me? I didn't have a chance to give anything since all I said was I wanted my D to not be stuck doing something like that and my W spun so fast I couldn't finish my sentence. I don't see how asking for what I think is best is wrong or judgmental. I really don't see how anything my W has done and said can be seen as good for our D.

What "give" do you expect? How much do I NEED to give away of what I think and most anyone would think is best for my D to make a person who has lied, been an awful wife and mother, put us all through years of hell and now blames me and even her mom for her unhappiness and is willing to make her kids and loved ones pay for her next experiment in "what will make me happy"? Yes, this is important because it shows me that she is unstable and selfish. I saw how little her D meant to her as she has been in her MLC, am I supposed to just think because I'm not around she will be better?

I told her that I was willing to have 50/50 split as long as she didn't get to be the person who decides in the end where D will permanently live. How much more CAN I "give"? I didn't even want to be that person, I wanted it to be our D! She is in such a big hurry. I told her I'd like to talk to my lawyer and what does she say "No, my L needs to write something up now. You have 30 min."

Than she starts with the blackmail about how she will "let" me live in our home IF she gets HER way. If not, well than she will see me thrown out and on the street. She forgets all that I have sacrificed for her and the kids. How this home was paid for because of MY hard work which she has totally dismissed now because I'm trying to make a business work and not making money when she knew that was coming!

MY W wants me to sign a paper that says we will do 7 days, 7 days BEFORE we talk to our D. The paper isn't supposed to say anything EXCEPT that we will be 50/50 and this is the way we want to do visitation. No way to stop if D hates it or doesn't want to do that any more! We would have to go back to court, SPEND MORE MONEY, go all thru this again if 7/7 doesn't work! Not only that I'm supposed to send her to the school where my W lives as well. NO way. I have to drive 20 miles each way to school and she gets to almost be able to walk there? My W set this up so that my D will start a new life in the school there that way my D will have to live with HER to be near her new friends. What other reason would she have for being happy that my dad can't pay for private school anymore? Yes, mind reading but really, tell me. Before she EVER thought about schools, she wanted to live where she is going as her friends live there and she likes the town. It has little to do with the schools, that's a smoke screen.

It also bothers me that of all the people she could have brought into this D, she brought her dad? The man who screwed her mother, never paid CS, drug it out for 10-11 years? I'm supposed to be happy about his being involved? When I told her that she said" I needed his advice". See about words and meaning...she knows he has no problem screwing her mother , her and brother, why would you WANT his advice unless you want to screw ME? Why not get advice from someone who had a GOOD divorce?

Cat, what would you have me give on here? I tried to give and all I got was fear from my W her being so very afraid and not because of anything I said or did but because of what other people say to her I will do!

I don't want to be a victim nor martyr, cat. Right now I feel like an idiot for trying so very hard to make this M work for as long as I have (especially the last year since B-day) so I will not now just give in and do something I don't think is right for my D just because of my W's "feelings" or fears or so I can have a place to live.

I hope this made sense to you as I'm upset and trying to show that it's not you that I'm upset at. I just don't want my D to hurt anymore than she already will because of what her mom feels is more important than even trying. I don't want my anger to hurt her but I also don't want my passiveness hurt her either

[Wonka]

Matt,

Let's separate the wheat from the chaff.

What does a 50-50 custody look like to you? Please be specific here. That would be a starting point for negotiations through lawyers.