Mach, thank you for yet another well thought out post.

I think my plan has done well at getting me, and even my wife, to where we are today... which is a pretty good place. I look around and my situation seems entirely different from most here, which I think sometimes makes it hard to relate.

I do appreciate all thoughts and advice from others. That's one way we learn.

Good stuff on rock bottom, Mach. Unless my wife suddenly changes and/or decides to up and run, which seems pretty unlikely at this point, her rock bottom seems like it will be soft... and long. Based on the progress I'm seeing, I'd say there's a possibility she may even have already hit it, or is still in it now. But that is just my educated guess, based on what I'm seeing from my up close point of view. Who knows?

I think W and I are close enough now, that we do need to start talking about some of the big things. Wonka, thank you for your post advising how to do this in small bits. So while I know I can't fix her issues, I also can't avoid the elephant in the room forever and expect things to improve. I tossed out a few comments a few nights ago, and it went well. W was not only receptive and engaged, but seemed appreciative that I brought it up. I will update more regarding this in a separate post as we move forward with it.

Either we are truly done with the marriage, or we are still holding on to hope. On this I believe there is no middle ground. It seems to me, that before we are done, we will vacillate back and forth many times, as we struggle to come to a decision on such an important part of our life. Like I've been doing!

"You may very well be able to keep status quo for the rest of your life with her, and if you do ? Then you have to accept that it may never change from what it is now. It may never grow and be different."

I have been considering the possibility of a life long, non-physical relationship with my wife for quite a while now. Could / would I do it? I don't know. Thankfully, I don't have to decide now.

"As I said before, I just want you to be brutally honest with what you are seeing..."

Now I have a few new perspectives to help me do that.^^^

"Do things because they are what YOU want to do..."

Which is why I started to reach out and initiate touch. At some point we have to just be ourselves, go for what we want and let the chips fall where they may. No fear.

"Not because they are the things that you feel that the Marriage wants to do..."

I hope that it's plenty clear by now that saving my marriage (and building a new and better one) IS what I want to do! So for me, they are one and the same.

"If this is your plan, then you need to have more patience than you have ever had before in your life, and then some more after that...."

And this,^^^ is what I keep coming back to.

"Try not to interchange your approach either..."

I haven't yet.

"I would assume that her sexual abuse is tied very strongly to the issues behind the MLC issues."

I would assume so also, but the fact is I really don't know this to be the case... or to what extent if it is. I suspect she might not either. I have done some research on the subject a while back on sword dance warrior, (thank you again, T2) and probably should do some more. Thank you for the book you suggested, Wonka.

"Your spouse may eventually come through the fog, or the tunnel that they are in. There will be no guarantee that the relationship will fail or succeed, although I can tell you this. Nothing will EVER be the same after that."

"What does that mean to you ???"

It means that after 35 years together, I need to hang around and SEE what's on the other side of this crises.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl