Mature Love

[Mach1]

Cat has already hit on some of the same things that I wanted to say, so I apologize if it is repetitive here...

Mach, it's been a while since we talked about it and here's why:

If she's not ready then the only outcome of the convo is me sucking it up and continuing on as is, or me making a move out of the M.

Ending the M is not an option at the moment, and may never be.

Talking about it is not helpful if she is not ready. (other than little hints) Plus, like Heather said, W can sense what I want. Why put more pressure on her?

Pressure doesn't only come with words FY, pressure also feeds off of your actions.

The little taps , etc, are all forms of physical pressure for her. The looks of disappointment when she pulls away, is still pressure on her....

She has known you for over 30 years, and she knows your triggers here.

You are looking for more, and I do understand that. She also understands that through your actions.

And I do think that it is your expectations that frustrate you with this.

You have expectations of this still being the Marriage that you entered 30 years ago. (and I know on some level you know it isn't, yet on a different level, you really want it to be, and are wishing it to be)

You have wants and needs that are NOT being met.

You fear the outcome of the conversation, therefore you refuse to have it.

What if she says no

What if she still wants to leave

What if she wants a Divorce...

Where does that leave you and your vow "soapbox" ???

So for me, the next time I have The Big Talk, (following Michele's guidelines from SSM) it will only be because I am close to done. I am no where close.

Yet this isn't just a SSM. There are deeper issues at play, and following SSM rules MAY not apply here.

She was sexually violated....there is a big difference here...

You are here in the MLC forum, so apparently, you feel as though she is MLC...

Part of her going through her MLC is dealing with the sexual issues , and her identity...

She may very well come through the MLC tunnel and NOT change her drive at all...

IF...you are truly building that connection, then I feel as though you need to be BRUTALLY honest with yourself in that regard. You need to know the difference between whether or not you are really getting closer ?

OR are you just wanting it so badly, that you have your rose colored glasses on....

After a hand hold, or a "bum" pat, back rub, etc....

Does she continue this with you on her own ???

Or does the asking phase have to happen again for the next time ???

To me ???

THAT is the difference between a healthy stand for your vows, and selling yourself just to say that you are still Married...

And let me be clear... This is not all about sex. It's about physical intimacy. Holding hands, hugging, cuddling, etc. As great as sex can be, it's not the only consideration for me. If it was I'da been gone.

FY, I do believe you, and I do understand the part about intimacy.

For me, it is the part that you are planning it, instead of seeing it happen naturally, without the "creepy" stuff...

It's only been as of late that I've been initiating touch, as suggested by others here. I like to think of a new relationship: it is usually the man who initiates touch. I want to be confident and assertive. If W is not ready, I will pull back. After two plus years, I'm an expert at no touch!

I covered this above...

And my only question is, is she responding, or is it a repeated pattern of you having to ask for it every time...

And as far as posting about it here? I'm sorry if you or anyone else feels offended reading about a man putting the moves on his W of 30 years. It would seem some others enjoy the pleasant diversion from the normal, much more painful topics on the board.

I understand that she is your Wife for over 30 years....(and sorry, you can disguise it like that if you choose to)

I also understand that she has told you , that she didn't want to be your wife anymore, and specifically told you that she did not want you to touch her....

You haven't asked, and she hasn't said you could...

And you continue to plan these touches and such....

THAT is the part that bothers me....



And just for the record, I am not against you standing at all...

I applaud your efforts very much...

And one day when you are having pornstar sex, I will be one of your biggest fans....

Until that time though, just be sure that you are doing this for the right reasons, and you are doing it in an emotionally healthy way...