Mature Love

[Mach1]

I think it is grossly unfair to come down hard on FY with this. Jeez, I personally wouldn't be able to endure a sexless M for a long duration. Isn't that what two people come together in a marriage...to unite in love and be united in a sexual unison as partners.

From my view, it is patently clear to me that FY truly does love his W. It is outrageous to suggest that FY is using a sex yardstick in standing for his M. That is NOT the case at all from his threads.

To demean and degrade FY's innermost desire to have an intimate and passionate sexual R with his own W once again as just "sex" is just awful.

Well, are we going to argue semantics ? As you say ???

Following strict Roman Catholic beliefs, then Sex is just for procreation, and nothing else...

And I'm not advocating that I am, or believe that....

Just pointing out that there are belief systems for every person, everywhere...

And that is the second time today, that you have inserted your own agenda into a conversation that had nothing to do with you....

I never once said that he didn't love his Wife, or that his stand wasn't admirable, OR that he shouldn't strive for that...

So do NOT put words onto my fingers here...

I actually admire a Man that can stand for his Marriage, there is so little of that in today's world. I admire that he is trying to reconnect with her, and I am happy that she seems to be responding....

What I find odd, is when he obsesses , and plans every little touch, and brush up against, and his recent posts have all seemed to been focused on the act of Sex....

Sounds a little creepy to me....

And if you are totally honest, if there were a person, that sat back and planned specific moves to use on you, in hopes of having Sex with them, then it would probably creep you out too....



FY....

Have you actually talked to her about this issue ??

Have you explained to her that you need that within the Marriage ???

Have you expressed that not having Sexual contact isn't working for you ???

[Wonka]

Mach,

[And that is the second time today, that you have inserted your own agenda into a conversation that had nothing to do with you..

You're dead wrong. I have no "agenda" at all. This is a public forum and we are entitled to post our views. To turn around and tell me that I have some hidden 'agenda' is one way of trying to quiet a person's voice.

When I see some outrageous comments or inappropriate comments being posted by people, I do make my views known as I do have my thoughts about some comments posted on the forums.

You sound a bit controlling, Mach...heh?

I will not be silenced.

Now back to the program with you and FY.

[Mach1]

You sound a bit controlling, Mach...heh?

I will not be silenced.

Now back to the program with you and FY.

Not so much controlling, as it is a boundary....

(You conveniently left that part out)

Then again, most MLCers never really liked boundaries....HEH ?

Why would I try to silence you ???

I value your opinion, always have...

Maybe that's the difference......

FY, I apologize for this, and the questions that I asked earlier, still stand....

Have you talked with her about this....???

From what I remember about your early stuff, this isn't simply just a SSM. There were some serious issues....

[uRworthy]

Fy, I have tried to live my life by certain standards. They are of my choosing. They include the people and things that I hold dear. I know who I am and what I stand for. And I know that the people who really know me, know that and that is what matters to me.

I do not want to get into a pis$ing match here with you or anyone else. You apologized and then proceeded to write the following. And so, I am left to try to understand how you can do both.

My issue with the M vows is that they are absolute. Literally, we are vowing to stand by our spouse through everything… forever, when obviously sometimes there is no way we could. Am I the only one who struggles with this?

I do not understand the above. On the one hand you are saying we should stand forever. On the other you are saying it isnt always possible. So, who gets to judge when someone has done enough? Who gets to decide that when one person is standing that he is better than someone who isn't?

Here's what I know about me. I left no stone unturned. I have absolutely no regrets in how I stood. I honored my marriage and my h by acting with dignity throughout. I never once said a bad word about him to our son, which allowed them to have a relationship.I have and still do, treat him with respect. I hope with all my heart that he finds happiness. I pray for him daily.

I am not going to continue to defend my actions to you, or anyone else for that matter.

I have and will continue to try to give people hope. What I wont do is judge anyone on their decisions. Those are theirs to make.

I wish you well on your life's journey, FY. I hope it is everything you want it to be.

[Wonka]

You sound a bit controlling, Mach...heh?

I will not be silenced.

Now back to the program with you and FY.

Not so much controlling, as it is a boundary....

(You conveniently left that part out)

How conveniently you've wrapped your "agenda" comment under the guise of 'boundary'...

Then again, most MLCers never really liked boundaries....HEH ?

Nope...this is a public forum...in case you've missed that one...

Why would I try to silence you ???

I value your opinion, always have...

Not really...sometimes you've disparaged some people's opinions by inserting words to suit to your "agenda"....and I am not the only one on the receiving end of it.


Maybe that's the difference......

Yes, that is the difference....

FY, I apologize for this, and the questions that I asked earlier, still stand....

Have you talked with her about this....???

From what I remember about your early stuff, this isn't simply just a SSM. There were some serious issues....

FY...sorry for taking up your thread this way. Mach sometimes makes comments toward me that are quite baseless at times and I do need to address them.

[cat04]

You sound a bit controlling, Mach...heh?

I will not be silenced.

Now back to the program with you and FY.

Not so much controlling, as it is a boundary....

(You conveniently left that part out)

How conveniently you've wrapped your "agenda" comment under the guise of 'boundary'...

Then again, most MLCers never really liked boundaries....HEH ?

Nope...this is a public forum...in case you've missed that one...

Why would I try to silence you ???

I value your opinion, always have...

Not really...sometimes you've disparaged some people's opinions by inserting words to suit to your "agenda"....and I am not the only one on the receiving end of it.


Maybe that's the difference......

Yes, that is the difference....

FY, I apologize for this, and the questions that I asked earlier, still stand....

Have you talked with her about this....???

From what I remember about your early stuff, this isn't simply just a SSM. There were some serious issues....

FY...sorry for taking up your thread this way. Mach sometimes makes comments toward me that are quite baseless at times and I do need to address them.

While I have been waiting until I got home to post, I must say that I have been enjoying the banter this afternoon...

Especially considering that prior to the crap between Wonka and Mach this was said...

However, I feel very strongly that Cat went a bit too far in calling you a snake the grass.

When what I actually wrote was...

Fy,

I dont post to you because honestly, reading your posts often turns my stomach. For me i feel like i am watching a snake waiting for the right time to strike when reading about your interactions with your W.

Did I actually call FY a snake in the grass? Not really.

Although the interpretation was colorful...

And it appears that it was that single misquote that spawned the entire barrage...

FY, I will respond to you in a separate post. Because I think you are entitled to an explanation.

[RosaLinda]

Forever, you and I have been friends a long time on the forum and the alt too, and we have occasionally disagreed on the issue of Standing. Okay, we have frequently disagreed about Standing. Most of our disagreements have stemmed around my contention that you, with your kitty cat MLCer, no kids and no OM, have no idea what is it like to live with a MLCer who is physically cheating, physically and mentally abusive, and wildly going thru your life savings as if there is no tomorrow. But I can see your point always, and always have had the utmost respect for you.

But FY, to accuse UR of not honoring her marital vows. You know her story. You know the crap UR's husband put her thru, how he ruined her financially and was abusive. How he cheated on her. How he put her down until she was an emotional basket case. Hell, UR and you and I have sat in person, and had dinner and drinks. I am, to say the least, flummoxed by your post. And do not understand. UR honored her vows until the end, and still cares about her crazy ex. I don't understand....

And Wonka, how nice to "see" you, my old friend. Still fiercely defending your friends, God I love that about you! I wanted to let you know I am a divorced woman, as of May 19th!

[ForeverYoung]

On the one hand you are saying we should stand forever. On the other you are saying it isnt always possible. So, who gets to judge when someone has done enough? Who gets to decide that when one person is standing that he is better than someone who isn't?

It is the literal meaning of the M vows that cause great conflict in me. I did say I would stand forever! Yet, now, maybe I won't be able to.

It has nothing to do with deciding for another, or who is better. I certainly don't consider myself any better than anyone here. I know we all do our best.

I know sometimes we have to move on from a situation where we gave it our all.

I know some aren't even given a chance to stand.

I would never intentionally, knowingly, "judge" another for their choice, least of all a dedicated DB member. Yet, unknowingly, that is what I have done, which is why I apologized. I hope this helps to clear things up.

[ForeverYoung]

FY....

Have you actually talked to her about this issue ??

Have you explained to her that you need that within the Marriage ???

Have you expressed that not having Sexual contact isn't working for you ???

Mach, it's been a while since we talked about it and here's why:

If she's not ready then the only outcome of the convo is me sucking it up and continuing on as is, or me making a move out of the M.

Ending the M is not an option at the moment, and may never be.

Talking about it is not helpful if she is not ready. (other than little hints) Plus, like Heather said, W can sense what I want. Why put more pressure on her?

So for me, the next time I have The Big Talk, (following Michele's guidelines from SSM) it will only be because I am close to done. I am no where close.

Until then, asking for little things and initiating touch, seems a better plan. Maybe the best way to get the ball rolling, without putting major focus on it. Avoid "Big physical relationship talks."

And let me be clear... This is not all about sex. It's about physical intimacy. Holding hands, hugging, cuddling, etc. As great as sex can be, it's not the only consideration for me. If it was I'da been gone.

It's only been as of late that I've been initiating touch, as suggested by others here. I like to think of a new relationship: it is usually the man who initiates touch. I want to be confident and assertive. If W is not ready, I will pull back. After two plus years, I'm an expert at no touch!

And as far as posting about it here? I'm sorry if you or anyone else feels offended reading about a man putting the moves on his W of 30 years. It would seem some others enjoy the pleasant diversion from the normal, much more painful topics on the board.

[ForeverYoung]

Forever, you and I have been friends a long time on the forum and the alt too, and we have occasionally disagreed on the issue of Standing. Okay, we have frequently disagreed about Standing. Most of our disagreements have stemmed around my contention that you, with your kitty cat MLCer, no kids and no OM, have no idea what is it like to live with a MLCer who is physically cheating, physically and mentally abusive, and wildly going thru your life savings as if there is no tomorrow. But I can see your point always, and always have had the utmost respect for you.

But FY, to accuse UR of not honoring her marital vows. You know her story. You know the crap UR's husband put her thru, how he ruined her financially and was abusive. How he cheated on her. How he put her down until she was an emotional basket case. Hell, UR and you and I have sat in person, and had dinner and drinks. I am, to say the least, flummoxed by your post. And do not understand. UR honored her vows until the end, and still cares about her crazy ex. I don't understand....

I know, Linda. It was a piss poor response on my part and I take full responsibility for it. Not much more I can say, really. Having just looked back on it, I do kinda want to hide though.