KGirl - Movin' On and Out!

[Pluto]

Honestly, KGirl, I feel the same way.. I think my WAW is too ashamed / doesn't believe I could ever forgive her for the A that she's pushing ahead with a divorce because she doesn't think she deserves me anymore.

I feel like this did come out of nowhere and the reasons are pretty weak/petty -- but that's their reality and it's important to them, despite how we feel about it.

[censored], I know. I'm feeling the same way. Hang in there, this too shall pass.

[vossy]

KGirl, hold on. You are being extremely strong and I honestly think you are not going to understand anything. Everything is contradictory and confusing, because he is confused. There would be no point trying to understand him right now because it sounds like he doesn't understand himself. Despite what he says about being "99% sure" my guess is he is not even close. He sounds just like mine.. trying to convince himself more than anyone.

Try and be as strong as possible during this transition period, but also try and do all the techniques you read about here: act happy, act "as if," act like you are moving onwards and upwards, especially in the time surrounding your mood. You just might find this is what makes the difference.

[vossy]

Sorry.. I meant "move" not "mood" in that last paragraph.

[labug]

K, is it possible that this is just your H being who he and you're seeing it clearly now?

When we're in a loving (and/or codependent) relationship the tendency is to make allowances for behaviors, explain things away and fill in the gaps by overfunctioning. We don't want to see our partner as they really are because it causes fear.

You're doing fine and will continue to do fine. You'll have blips along the way.

How do you get to a place where you can genuinely wish someone well that has been so hurtful?

You're getting there. It appears again that he's not being hurtful so much as he's just being him and you expect him to be someone else. Could that be true?

[KGirl]

IC today was helpful. My takeaway points:
-It's OK to be angry and sad right now. It's a normal reaction all things considered. And if I can't treat it as strictly business, I can just acknowledge that I might be pretty angry and sad over the next few weeks, but it will be better once everything is divided and I move.
-Instead of responding emotionally to H's suggestions ("You don't deserve that thing! I'm the one who spent all the time picking it out!") to try to be more rational when negotiating with him ("So you want to keep the dining set.. we spent about $800 on that. I would need to be able to take things that are worth about that same amount for that to be fair.") I don't know that rational is going to work on him because he wants to keep everything and just give me money to buy stuff, but I don't want to have to go through the trouble of purchasing and delivering a bunch of furniture, either.
-Be kind to myself during this time. For me that means I have to be careful about drinking alcohol and eating too much, though!

We talked some about seeing H as who he really is. This is a tough one for me, because I'm scared that if I acknowledge that this is who he is, and it's not who I want to be married to, that that means it's over for sure. A background story: I knew H all throughout middle school and high school, but was never part of his group of friends. Early in high school I had a couple of friends that had a crush on him, and I told them that I didn't get why. I thought he was a bully and a jerk - very conceited and walked around like he owned the place. I found him really annoying. Then, we had to be lab partners in a class and as we talked more I got to know another side of him... the side that I liked, that led to us dating, and so forth. I felt like the side I had previously seen was a front to protect himself, given his family background and self-esteem and whatnot, and that I was able to break through to the REAL him. Today I said something to my IC about how I recognized he was a jerk early on but just chose to ignore it or forget about it. His response was "he doesn't have to be just an entitled jerk or just a nice guy. He probably has aspects of both things... things aren't black and white like that." So, I guess I'm more aware of that not-so-nice side of him that I saw early on before we got involved, but then like you said, bug, I justified or smoothed over or ignored in favor of the other things.

[nit84]

KGirl and Bug,

I am going through the same emotions as you KGirl and what you described Bug.


I'm not sure how to react to it though, I always saw that my W could be quite a B**ch. She wasn't that way towards me so I guess I let it slide most of the time. When the way she acted bothered me I did say something like "Don't you think that's a little harsh?" Again, this attitude wasn't directed at me 99% of the time so I guess I did cover for my W a great deal when other people saw that she could act in such a way.

Bug, I did overfunction a lot but honestly I thought I was doing that because that is what a loving H does. Takes care of his W in any possible situation.

I have been labeled a rescuer by my IMC, I see that now I am that type. But again I thought that is what H does.


A comment above by Pluto was interesting, about W thinking he could not forgive for the A and therefore pushing the D though.


My W is denying an A. I have no real proof just Rumors and phone records but my W always said I throw her past up in her face and I did real early in the dating phase and early on in the M.

I have not done that in at least 10 years but other bad habits of mine did the damage.

I understand her fears in this respect so I think I am the same boat as Pluto and that is one of reasons W is pushing on with the process.

If I hadn't been learning R skills this past year my W could actually be right about throwing up the past but I have learned that you can forgive if you truly want to and move on from an A with a lot of hard work.

I can forgive my W for a lot of things but she also needs to be able to forgive me. That is the major stumbling block I feel.

I can't change her feelings after so many years of toxic problems but I pray to GOD everyday that maybe a little baby step is all she needs to start that ball rolling back towards a new MR.

It just amazes me how WAS just can continually hide behind catch phases like " it's too little too late" or I am just "done" and want to move on.

Or my all time favorite "If you only knew how hard I tried to make this work and how many people I cried to about our M before I made up my mind to not love you."

The only reply a LBS has is that is possibly true is "You never cried to me and those people never told me how unhappy you were so how was I to know?"

One more WAW quote I got "I thought you didn't hear me when I asked you things or told you things that I needed or wanted but you were listening because of different things you are doing now that I said I was lacking in our M, But the only problem is you haven't changed."

It gets really hard to validate this one and not to start to point out all the hard work you as a LBS have been doing to try and allow for a possible new MR or to at least become that person that only a fool would leave.

Hang in there KGirl, It can only get better from here!!

[KGirl]

His not so nice side (real him? I don't know) is coming out in full force.
H: I'm going to be gone this weekend.
Me: Ok...so am I going to need to feed the cat?
H: Well, yeah (this is usually something he does)
Me: Ok, so from when to when?
H: From when I leave until when I get back.
Me: That doesn't really help me know what to do.
H: *exasperated* Tomorrow night until Saturday night or Sunday morning.

I'm not asking to be nosy, I genuinely need to know so I know when to be responsible for the cat. What if I was gone, too? He said he hadn't thought that far ahead. I guess it's hard to think ahead to tomorrow. Seems irresponsible and selfish to me, and I am tired of his attitude.

[KGirl]

Well... had an interesting converstion before H left for the weekend to visit his parents, sister, and her kids. He had IC and he wanted to talk about that for awhile. Says he is tired of just talking all of the time and wants the IC to "guide him." We've talked before about how C's don't tell you what to do, but how he could ask the IC to be more solution-focused.

He asked if my IC told me about all these "books [I've] been reading" - Co-dependent No More, The Happiness Trap, ILBINILWY. I don't leave them out purposefully for him to see, but I also don't go to great lengths to hide them because it's too much work (I do hide DR, though!). I couldn't exactly say "well, I post a bunch of stuff about us on this message board and those people give me great advice" so I said I had just been doing my own research and finding resources. He said "I guess that's my problem, I just want someone to tell me what to do."

This part of the conversation scared me a little:
H: I still need to tell my counselor how I feel about myself.
Me: What do you mean?
H: That I think I'm a sociopath, or something. I really don't care about other people, or feel emotion towards them, or care about how they are feeling. I care about myself a lot but not really other people.
Me: I know you care about your neices and nephew... you love them.
H: Yeah, and I'd love my own kids if I had them.. but that's different. I care about them because when I see them they climb all over me and want to tell me lots of stories and think I'm cool. So I like them and care about them because they give me a lot of attention.

Hmmm. The sociopath part is scary. I don't know if this is just a phase, or if it's just how he is. It seems like he's capable of caring about others but maybe it doesn't come easy for him. I also worry that he shows a lot of symptoms of depression (apathetic, lack of motivation, indecision) and that he might need more than just talk therapy.

Another insightful point from him... he said that he talked w/ his IC about how part of why he's doing this is because he doesn't feel like I compliment or appreciate him enough. But, when I do, he feels like it's not sincere or I don't mean it. Or if he thinks I do mean it, it's not enough. He actually said "no matter how much people compliment me I never believe it and it's never enough... I want more." His IC asked him to think about why he needs that from others, and that he needs to think about being happy for his own accomplishments and achievements, no praise necessary. I'm glad he's realizing this isn't just about me not being appreciative enough. I acknowledge I could do better at that. But if it's "never enough," it won't matter how hard I try.

Also a good thing, potentially? H said his work friend (the toxic single one who can't wait for H to be single too) used to compliment him a lot and tell him how great he is, but not anymore because they don't really talk anymore. Thank goodness?!?

Two things he asked me about that I'd like feedback on, because I'm not sure if I handled them well:

1) He was talking to the neighbor, and said the neighbor (who we've only had passing conversations with when doing yardwork outside) invited us to have "cocktails" on Monday night (this neighbor is 80+ years old so it's kind of cute). He said he told the neighbor he'd be free but he'd have to check with me. My response was "I don't really want to go with you. I don't want to pretend everything is fine and that we're a couple when we're not." Should I have said I'd go with him? Or just declined without an explanation?

2) H asked again about me taking care of the cat in June - he said he'd be gone almost a full two weeks with only a few days home during that time period. The convo went:
Me: I don't think that will be a good idea for me. I want to move on from this part of my life and revisiting this, while it'd be nice to see the cat, would be very hard.
H: But I won't be here?
Me: Yes, but I don't want to come back and revisit this house. I don't really need the reminder of what I'm leaving behind. There are a ton of neighbor kids that I'm sure would love to feed her and clean her litter box for a few bucks.
H: *in a joking tone* Unreal!

Ugh. Should I agree to help with the cat? On the one hand, I think he needs to own responsibility for this. If he's taking a trip and being a single cat parent, he needs to find someone to take care of her, and it's not going to be me years from now if we D. On the other hand... I will miss her... and maybe me being helpful and agreeable will help things. I don't know. Thoughts?

[KGirl]

My sister (age 25) invited me to lunch today, which was interesting because she lives an hour away. Turns out she wanted to tell me that she got engaged on her vacation this past week. She's been dating the same guy since she was 17 and they own a house together, so it's about time! I tried my best to be congratulatory and happy for her... but it's hard. I can't help but think about how I may be single by the time her wedding comes around, and how I wish I could be happily M like they will be (well, assuming it is happy...)

[labug]

Comparing your life to others, how does that help you? Someone will always have more, or less than we do.

I think you know the answers to the 2 questions you posed.