Both of your D's are old enough to make their own decisions in that regard. If your D does not want to go, SHE needs to be the one voicing that to her mother, with your support.
Personally, I'm not sure how she can be forced to go if there is a parent willing to be home with her. (It isn't like you and W are going away for vacation or anything.)
I don't know how much you can do legally to stop it, that would be something that you would need to look into, however on a parenting level, I would think it should be up to your D.
And I don't see THAT as poisoning your D against your W or GF. I see it as supporting your D in her decision. And I think it is something you should support her in.
Leaving your feelings about it out of it entirely.
What I see and what your W sees are going to be two very different things though.
I do think you need to step back from the situation to see it more clearly. More objectivly.
I will get to the other stuff in a little while. I need to think a bit more on it.
I would like to suggest that you read back through your posts with the lens of someone who isn't living it.
See how the person writing looks to you. See if you can see how obvious the emotions of the writer are.
This type of forum actually gives us the opportunity to see ourselves how others might see us if we take the time to look at it from the outside.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Thanks cat. I'll go back and look at my posts objectively. I agree with you about it being her decision. My D has told me many times that she doesn't want to go but my W is trying hard to get her to change her mind. Last night her father and her took my D out to dinner. While there (without me) they told my D that if she goes he'll pay her a couple thousand $, for doing just a little work like doing dishes. My W even tried telling my D that if she goes, maybe he'll pay for her to go to private school! That is a lie and my wife even admitted that he would never do that but, if it gets her to go that's no big deal. So now that my D has made it clear that she doesn't want to go, she will bribe and lie to her to get her to change her mind. When I told her it was wrong to do that she said her dad "made" her spend time with him when she was a teenager and she ended up glad he did.
I'm sure there is no legal way to send her over my objections but it will make coming to the best terms possible in a D so much harder if I have to get a L involved to stop it. I'm trying to think unemotionally and I still don't think it's right to send her and bribe and lie to her to get her to change her mind.
Until her dad got involved in this we hardly augured about things like this. Neither of us wants to keep the other away from our D. We both wanted what was best for both of them. Now just because I don't want to encourage my D to go spend time with him I'm horrible and we're fighting. A week before he got here my W said she had no hurry to get a D, now she does. The only change.... Dad came to town.
As of now my D hasn't changed her mind about going but she has told me she really needs to make money since her mom won't help pay for private school. As of yet I haven't said anything to her about it, just asked what she was thinking.
It's a sore subject with my W. She can't seem to think stright where he is involved. His interference may make having a good relationship with my W post D impossible.
Now she wants to send my D 1000 miles away to be with a man she knows has hurt her (but she now says that he has changed yet she is the only one to see it). What if she or her father don't like the custody arrangements? How do I know he won't keep her as she will be out of our home state if she doesn't like what the court comes up with? This is a man who was wanted in my W's home state for years for non payment of CS.
Simply put...
IF your Daughter doesn't want to go, then the answer is no...
Not maybe, not we will see...
Simply put....
I have asked her, and she does not want to go...
And I support HER decision with that...
Don't blame her for what she wants, don't belittle her decision, accept it as HER truth right now....
Don't include YOUR thoughts, only that you are supporting your Daughter's decisions...
Man, you keep sticking those buttons out there for her to push, and she is going to each time that you present them....
Originally Posted By: Matt165
Cat, I do take responsibility for my part. I just don't get what I did that was so terrible and my W can't tell me except the stupid stuff she comes up with. What do you suggest? I haven't been able to get her to come up with anything but stuff from 20 years ago and that she doesn't trust me now to not turn her kids against her. I didn't do anything that would in the least be thought of as a reason not to "trust" me!
I know you are trying to help but when I get "I knew I should have listened to everyone who keeps saying you will be horrible. I didn't think so but now I do" because I don't want to send her away with her dad, how does that put any responsibility on me? I keep hearing her say over and over that she was afraid this would happen or that would happen how am I responsible for her unfounded fears? She needs to wait until we work out our arrangements for D and custody before she starts pushing for something she knows I will never want!
I know you trying to help and get me to understand how I played a part in the ending of our marriage and I know there has to be more as well as you do. But if I can't get her to tell anything but the small things or to blame me for every problem we ever had over the years, what do I need to do?
This is what MLC is .....
Her statements and reasons DO NOT have to be valid to you...
Yet they are VERY real and valid to her..
The reason that we say to address the things that "sting", is because if you tried to address EVERY complaint of the MLCer, you would drive yourself crazy...
You DO NOT try to fix all of them...just the "sting things", because those are the ones that YOU do not like about yourself....
I have this analogy, and you may have seen this before (if you have read my posts)....
The stronger that you become, and the more that you become like your old self, the more that the MLCer will try to find buttons to push on you, and the harder that they will have to try to justify their reasons for wanting out of the marriage...
Kind of like the Space Shuttle has the two big booster tanks for fuel during takeoff...
Once it lifts off, and goes into orbit, the less fuel that it uses...
The same aspect applies to your MLCer, she NEEDS that fuel to push away from you, and she NEEDS to villian-ize you in order for HER CHOICES to be just, and seem rational. She needs them to be rational in order to escape judgement from the people who she sees as peers to her......
I see you struggling with making sense to all of this...
It's just not gonna for now, and it may never make sense.
And I know that you see me as some asshat, that likes to bash you on the noggin for no reason....and if that is what you wanna see for now, then I am okay with that....
Although, I read your posts, and I see a guy that is trying to apply logic to this, and having to have a valid reason of why she is "doing" this, or making these choices....
I see these long posts, trying to explain yourself, and thinking that if you just give this last reason, then they will understand me better, or the situation better...
Matt, I get it, Cat gets it, T2 gets it, Wonka, AJM, UrWorthy gets it....
I'm not diminishing your pain at all by saying that to you, it is just the facts...
And what you are actually accomplishing, is that you are making excuses for not detaching from her, the situation, and holding yourself back from moving forward with YOUR life, and your Daughter's lives...
NOTHING in MLC makes sense..
Everything true and valid is no longer held with the same vigor that it once had...
Vows become disposable, and morals become obsolete..
The Marriage becomes a causality..
Because whether or not you want this, the old marriage is dead and gone....no longer to be...
Even IF you would reconcile, what you once had, would begin anew...
That is a very real possibility too...
Your goal should be to back away, and to make the best decisions possible...every day...
You move forward with YOUR life, not including her, and to outlast her MLC....
Right now, I really see you accepting everything else that she is saying, as absolute truth, EXCEPT the fact that this is MLC....
I have been AWOL because of crazy work hours and traveling. I will be MIA for another day or two.
A summary of your sitch is this:
You CANNOT rationalize with Crazy.
Let. Her. Go.
The more you resist against your W, the more spew you'll get from W. Try something different here. Be nonchalant in your communications with W and keep your responses short.
Now, obviously you don't agree that you're horrible, you're saying it as W's thinking it.
Guess what, she's allowed to think you're horrible. Even for an illogical or nonexistent reason. You cannot control, manage, or decide what she gets to think about you.
Take "she thinks I'm horrible" completely off the table as a factor in any of your actions, thoughts or decisions. Accept that she might, and be ok with yourself by doing what you believe is the right thing to do.
Let go of her opinion of you. It will be what it will be, and ultimately it doesn't matter and will likely change over time.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Thanks Wonka and I only think you're an Ashat when you probably say something I should be listening to!
You're right about finding the fuel. That makes sense since just 5 days before her father got here, things were so much more reasonable to her. No hurry to get a D, we both want what's best for the kids, she saw that my parents weren't being awful to her and that I hadn't bad mouthed her to them. I was being supportive and let her know that I knew she was able to take care of herself and our D's on her own if she had to (somehow, probably because of something I said on B-day, she thought I didn't think she would be able to take care of herself), the fact that I didn't get upset over the bank account she opened in secret (she knew I didn't like her hiding it from me), I made sure she was included in every way possible when my parents visited and during my D's graduation. All good things that put me in a good light. Of course she wanted to change that. It didn't jive with the evil person she wants me to be so she can rationalize deciding to end a 20 year marriage and hurt the kids.
I will admit that right now I'm feeling down on myself because I should really not be in the position where I'm not making enough money to send my D anywhere she wants for school, with or without my W's help. I was able to do that for many years for both kids when she wasn't working and it hurts me that I'm not able to do so now. If I had had any idea that my W would do this I wouldn't have started working at a start-up and relying on W's income. So, that is a big old button that she can use to get me upset and I need to stop letting that get to me!
I hear her saying that her dad never did the things that for years, she would cry to me about whenever she saw or heard from him. That he is now such a good guy and it's not HER that he has a problem with but ME. That all these years he wanted to be a part of her life but hated me so much he couldn't allow her into his life if it included me.(never said anything like this until now, when she is having an MLC) When I asked why he would hate me so much as I never did anything to him, she said it was because I asked him for money when we got married to help pay for the wedding and I didn't know him so I had no right! Really? That her brother (who was arrested once again over the weekend) told him that I was doing bad things (again, 20 years ago)and he didn't like that. Doesn't matter that for the last 20 years I've been a good husband and father and any father that would exclude his D from his life because of her choice of H when that person has done nothing but be a good husband is wrong to do that. It doesn't matter that his awful treatment of her started LONG before I even met her! Went on before we were married and I hadn't even met the man. So, if I look at this objectively, I KNOW this is bull and just a justification on both his and her part for bad behavior or a reason to not even try and work on saving her marriage.
The other side of her family who I have seen and spent holidays with and gone on visits who really know me, all think highly of me. Love me even but she only wants to listen to what her father says about me. Again, this tells me that she is using this as a rationalization for wanting out. A reason when she can't find a real reason she should feel the way she does.
I need to look at these things and instead of getting upset see them for what they are, fuel to keep her going in the direction she has chosen no matter what.
I WILL stop resisting her. I will no longer let anything get under my skin. I WON'T allow her to drag me into long talks or push my buttons. Thanks Wonka.
You as well Mach, didn't mean to leave you out! I have got to stop trying to make sense of the sitch. My logical mind is so trying to make sense of something that defies logic and I need to stop letting that control my thoughts and actions.
After our "talk" the other night, I found myself plotting revenge scenarios in my mind and when I realized what I was thinking it scared me! I SO don't want to become that person. Someone bitter and angry all the time, it's just not me. Maybe a big part of this is that I used to be a happy person. I like to laugh and be with other people and since all this I don't seem to be that person anymore. That's totally on me! I can't let my sitch with my W turn me into someone I'm not. I need to use it to drive me to become a BETTER person, to show my D's how strong people handle the hard parts in life. Not running away but facing the facts and making my own future the way I want it to be!
We all know who the real asshat is here!! LOL looking at that direction over thar
Love me even but she only wants to listen to what her father says about me. Again, this tells me that she is using this as a rationalization for wanting out. A reason when she can't find a real reason she should feel the way she does.
Wow...are you saying that you can read W's mind??! Are you absolutely sure about that ^^? What 'proof' do you have to pin that so-called analysis on here??!
Rationalizations Reasons Excuses
How about this: This is how W is really, truly feeling at this moment? IT IS WHAT IT IS. Get that drilled on your forehead.
It sounds like you are expecting Florence Nightingdale to show up at at time. How's that helping you move forward if you keep looking for Florence? That door ain't opening up anytime soon.
Once again...stop assigning "blame" on FIL for W's mess. Substitute 'Oreo' for FIL and you'll see how silly it would be if you blame Oreo for W's problems. Why would it be any different for FIL?
For once, I'd love to hear some positive stuff that YOU do for YOURSELF instead of a litany of what your W does or does not do or a litany of WhateverTheBestHusband stuff.
Oh and your job choice? You are your own prisoner. You can always choose again. Take a different job if you want to help yourself and DDs financially. When there's a will, you make stuff happen.
