I'm so shocked and heartbroken , this can't be rea

[rsl1034]

What do you want to know?

[rsl1034]

I got a DU I 15 years ago ,I had previously gotten one when we were dating.
I had an EA about 14 years ago, actually it was a more one sided crush on my part. The OW was never interested in being anything other than my bartender.
About this same time I quit a bad job and had a series of worse ones while I went back to school.
Sometimes she wants to do things and I resist. These things are generally things that at the time I thought we couldn't afford.
I drank too much at times.
I pressured her to have sex more than 3 times a year which was where it was at for 3 or 4 years after S was born.
When she would get mean or do something spiteful I would do the same to her.
I wasn't the best listener and I'm kinda sloppy and spend money unwisely , not great deals of money.20 here and there and lose receipts.
I snore.
I start things that take a while to finish.
I make light of things that I don't think are a big deal.
Last year I told them I was going to quit taking them camping because they were never happy and it was so much work for me that I never got to fish or whatever.
I have worked graveyards or splits for the last 20 years.
There is a brief list of my worst offenses as I recall ,I'm sure that hers is longer and different but how do I know if she never talks?

[Mach1]

All others; I asked a legitimate question to MrBond. Explained myself that I was venting ,in a bad place and apologized. If you still want to hammer me on that then it says more about you than me.

Actually, it does say a lot about you. The anger, and standoffish attitude that you have within that quote...

Did you have that in your marriage when you were confronted about something ??

This is the first time that I will mention this in this post, yet I see a lot of it throughout your list RS...

You have a pattern of holding other people accountable for your words and actions...

It's not okay to respond with anger, because someone says something that you do not agree with. And it isn't their fault if YOU react poorly to anther person's words.

It in-validates their thoughts, and belittles their opinion. Is that how you mean to present yourself ??

Nobody is here to hammer you buddy. Everyone here is in the same boat, or has been in that same boat. There would be zero enjoyment in kicking that dog while he is down...

Relax and take what people are saying to you as constructive criticism. The insight that you gain from that, is how you are presenting yourself to other people...

Do you want to come across as superior ?

Controlling ?

Standoffish ?

I got a DU I 15 years ago ,I had previously gotten one when we were dating.

You mentioned this below too. How much did drinking affect your daily life ???

I had an EA about 14 years ago, actually it was a more one sided crush on my part. The OW was never interested in being anything other than my bartender.

Did she know about this ?

About this same time I quit a bad job and had a series of worse ones while I went back to school.

How much financial stress was on the family at this time ? How much of the financials fell onto her with this ??

Sometimes she wants to do things and I resist. These things are generally things that at the time I thought we couldn't afford.

How did you address these at those times ??

I drank too much at times.

See above

I pressured her to have sex more than 3 times a year which was where it was at for 3 or 4 years after S was born.

Explain to me, the difference in the way that Men and Women view sexual drive ? And what a Man's role in creating that sexual drive is ??

When she would get mean or do something spiteful I would do the same to her.

Tit for Tat, I'll kick your dog, you kick my cat ??

How much of that time, would have been better spent understanding WHY she was like that ??

How much of that is passive aggressiveness, by holding her accountable for your anger ???

I wasn't the best listener and I'm kinda sloppy and spend money unwisely , not great deals of money.20 here and there and lose receipts.

Listening skills can be changed...

Sloppiness can be addressed...

And from what you are describing above, I understand the money thing. IF she was the one providing the financials for the household, then she would want that vital information to manage the budget....

I snore.

Yea, well, then stop that !!!!

LOL, seriously .... ???

I start things that take a while to finish.

Well, I hope that you can start, and finish thinking about this before 2015....

Anywoo....think about WHY that you didn't finish projects.

I make light of things that I don't think are a big deal.

I think that we all are guilty of that in some fashion. The important part, is that we understand that our words affect all people differently. And understand that what you meant, and how it was taken, are two, entirely different points of view...

Last year I told them I was going to quit taking them camping because they were never happy and it was so much work for me that I never got to fish or whatever.

Maybe it wasn't the message itself, it was the way that the message was delivered that was really the sticky point ??

You were holding other people accountable for your happiness...

Why did you go camping ?

Because YOU enjoyed it ??

They enjoyed it ??

I have worked graveyards or splits for the last 20 years.

Can you change this ??

There is a brief list of my worst offenses as I recall ,I'm sure that hers is longer and different but how do I know if she never talks?

Before you start wondering about her list....

Fixing HER list isn't as important as fixing the things on that list that you don't like about yourself...

How much of that ^^^ are you really proud of ??

Is that how that you want your Son to remember you by ??

Is that the kind of Father, Friend, Son, Brother, Husband that you want to be to your loved ones ???

One that that I did when I was new at this, was to make a list of qualities that I wanted to show the world every day.

That was what I could control, the way that I interacted with other people. Not for my marriage, my spouse, my kids, my boss, my neighbors, my parents, my friends....

Just for me....


I did those things REGARDLESS of how I was being treated, because I wasn't doing them for other people, I was doing them for myself...

And even if the interaction went poorly, I KNEW that I reflected my true self within it....

I held nobody responsible for my actions, and I didn't allow myself to be accountable for the actions of other people...

So please...

Stop thinking that anyone here wants to hammer you, or treat you poorly.


So let me ask you a couple things....

What would you say, the difference is between Love and Obligation within a Marriage ???

What does loving another person mean to you ???


Do you love her ???

What are some things that you want to show the world everyday ???

Things that you would like to have in return ???

Because, as Ghandi once said....

Be the change that you want to see in the world.....

[Nettles]

rsl,

I can only give you my perspective of things that you write, and it is based upon my personal experiences with my sitch. There is a lot in what you write that reads like the 'old' me. I write 'old' me because I am a different person today. And this healing and changing didn't occur until I was accountable for my actions and I really thought about who I was and who I wanted to be. For me, loving myself, appreciating the success of my life, and owning my own happiness are key. And the journey of change continues.

Maybe you are doing some analysis of yourself in this process. But based upon what you wrote, it wasn't apparent.

I'm not writing anything to hammer you RSL. I think you have the same goal as I do, creating a better R with W. And I believe that is the same goal Mach, MrBond and anyone else who posts on your thread have for you.

[rsl1034]

Ok Mach1 ,that is too much to respond to from my phone ,the " says more about you..." was directly aimed back at whoever said it to me earlier. There was anger in my original reply to Mr. Bond. The second part which you quoted was sincere.
2 I own my mistakes ,I don't see where I'm holding others accountable for my words and actions.
3 yes she knew about EA , she busted me on it and confronted the poor bartender gal by phone and at her place of employment ,which is why I couldn't understand when she asked me why I wanted to confront OM.
We had weeks of discussion and soul searching and got over it.
I'm not worried about her list other than how it must have been so bad for her and she rarely said a thing about it.
What may not be apparent to you in no way means that it isn't happening the few times I've tried humor and irony in posting here has been lost as as well.

[rsl1034]

Oops I responded to nettles with that last part.
I would say that the difference between love and obligations in a marriage is that the love one feels for ones spouse should be reciprocated. It needn't be story book new love , comfortable old love us just as sweet. Love should be the things you do because it makes your wife give you that lopsided smile that melts your heart. Love should be the way you feel when you get a luv u message in lipstick on the mirror just because.
Love in a marriage should be sticking by each other especially when the going gets tough. love in a marriage should mean that you love someone enough to do anything for her ,even if it means letting her go. But then that's not love within the marriage, is it?
Obligation in the marriage is to do right by your spouse . support financial, physical, emotional. To hold your vows dear. To protect and defend their honor.
Do I love her? You must be joking.

[rsl1034]

There is a lot more to that list than what you read into it. The financial part was hard on us both while I went to school. I contributed what I could as a laborer and was the primary care giver to S between work and school. The financial issues at that time were different. I didn't really get that careless until I graduated and got a good job. I am in no means diminishing the fact that she shouldered a larger share of the financial burden.
And seriously, I make a list of what's wrong with me and you ask me if I'm proud of any of it.
I said before that I just started my new shift this week.
I go camping because I enjoy it.W says she does but her and S watch dad's the whole time. They don't like being dirty , bugs and such and yes I know that sacrificed to be with me. Much the way I go on hours long marathon shopping trips with W. It's just what you do when you're a family.
I don't always want my way and my way only. Quite the contrary , I'm way easy going and yes I'll acquiesce to avoid conflict. But I keep getting mixed messages here ,seems like a lot of you think I should just be an enabling pussy. Well I'll take a lot but pushed so far ,I will push back and then it seems like you're blaming me for being superior , selfish or blaming my [censored] on others which I'm not. I've already owned up to what damage I've done. Damage that is in the past for the most part.
I'm here just trying to understand. This didnt happen overnight, yet it happened in minutes right before my eyes.
As I said before I had been participating in behaviors that she had silently been banking resentment on and still we laughed loved and ML right up until that moment when I said I knew about OM and could prove it.
At that instant she stopped looking me in the eye ,changed horribly into someone I don't recognize. Since then I've been do anything I can think of to bring my W back. I'm sorry if I stepped on the toes of anyone here , I'm really tired and there are only 2 things that matter to me. Making sure S is ok and finding my W. Along the way I discovered DB. I m trying to put it to use.
The ideas aren't earth shattering ,I think any thinking person strives to be a better individual and I belive that I , for the most part have long tried to embody that. If I lash out well it isn't me in denial or not owning up to my character defects, it is me cursing the gods because I don't know how to lay in the same bed as my checked out W and not be allowed to hold her.
Do sincere apologies to anyone who had their feathers ruffled. Sincere thanks for all the good advice as well as the kicks in the ass.
I know my good outweighs my bad at the same time I know that my bad can be improved upon by a huge margin.

[rsl1034]

So , W's birthday is next Saturday. What is the protocol for that?

[rsl1034]

Echo echo echo...

[rsl1034]

Ok here's the deal, people are saying back off and give her space etc. To me this sounds like " go ahead and disrespect me while I sit cuckold and take it."
I read a post from Sandi2, whose viewpoint is one I'd very much like to hear about, and she says be strong and confident. WAS has already lost respect for LBS and that is attractive.
Contrary to what some may think I value and consider all advice. Sandi and Mach1 in particular. I'm better at reading than following though.
How do you guys live with yourselves allowing A to continue while playing nice and sharing a fake marital bed.
I'm not mind reading here but if I'm being played I want to know.
Dont I still have a reasonable expectation for my lawfully wedded spouse to conduct themselves in a manner that lives up to the law,and vows we took? If they want to be single then they should s**t or get off the pot.
Thanks just answered my own question. She was getting up and flushing and I sat her back down.
You guys are the best.