Wife in MLC and getting ready to go #2

[Matt165]

One more thing Mach,
I do understand that she wants out of her marriage and that is her choice and I really don't hate her for that. If it was just that and she was still being a mother and could be trusted to actually tell the truth, not sneck around behind my back and hide that she is doing the very things she was so worried I would do at the start we could do this in a decent way that minimizes the hurt and limits the damage to the kids.

Instead I get her saying crazy stuff like D doesn't hurt kids, we all hurt our kids, they will get over it, etc. Now my D tells me after 25 years of her telling me how much she hated going to see her father in the summer, how uncomfortable she felt around him, etc. that it wasn't that. What bothered her was her mom would be "upset" when she came home. She has started blaming her mother who really was victimized by this man for why her childhood was so bad! Her mom has been so nice to her, so supportive over the years, raised her and her brother alone with no child support now she is being made into the bad guy!

I guess my W doesn't like that her mom doesn't think she is acting right. Has told her she at least needs to try to do something to save her marriage so I guess that makes her "bad" in my W's eyes.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't like she is breaking her marriage vows and not even willing to try to save her M. It's more the total personality change when I never would have had kids with someone who really has no values or morals.

[Matt165]

OK, get ready to start telling me how stupid I am because I really messed up last night!
It really wasn't my fault but of course it was totally my fault because I allowed myself to get drawn into her awfulness. I should have been stronger, ignored her, but instead I let how I feel about the way she is acting at this point in time get to me.
It started when, after all the missing our D's grad events, the trying to send her away, all that I have posted about, she found another way to screw her and me. There was a party last night for my D's class. This is the last time she will see most of the people that were there. Especially since she now can't go to the school she wants. There were teachers there that have known her all her life that will no longer be a part of her life as well. The kids she grad with are like brothers and sisters to her. This same core group have been in very small classes together since Kindergarden. One of the reasons we sent her there year after year is because of how wonderful this was, how the teachers care so very much, how every child is accepted and part of the group. They honestly love one and other.

My D is so upset knowing that this is the last time she will be part of this family like school. She loves her teachers, her friends and EVERY other kid in her class is someone she calls friend. So, going to this was important to her. About half an hour before we were going to leave, my W texts and offers to bring bottles of water from the store so I don't have to pick some up. OK, that would be nice. Well we wait for over an hour and still no W. Finally I text her and she says that she thought I knew (how I would know this is beyond me) that she wanted to meet me to pick it up! How am I supposed to know this? Mind reading? I ask her where and she says at the party.

I tell my D and my D says to me that she doesn't want her mom at the party and for me to text her to bring the water home. Here she is so upset she is late and she so doesn't want her mother there she would rather miss more! I tell her that she really needs to not do that. That it would hurt her mothers feelings and we should just go and meet her. We are on our way and my W calls and asks where we are! I tell her and she says how late we are running, how bad that is, etc. It's her fault! She will not accept any responsibility for her part in anything! By the time we get there many teachers my D wanted to see were gone but many were still there and she had a great time. I was nothing but nice to W, never let myself get upset. At one point my D asks about staying overnight at one of the girls. I say it's fine with me but to ask her mom since her GF is in town. To my surprise my W says yes. Great.

So, we all leave the party and we get home late. I am nothing but nice to my W, get ready for bed and say goodnight. W stops me and says "Don't you want to talk"? I ask about what and she says about the lawyer she went to see! I say no, I don't but she insists. Now it begins! She tells me that she found out just how easy it will be to get a D. How we can save all kinds of money since we are going to be so good about dividing everything and about custody of our D. I ask her why she lied to me and said she wasn't going to go to a L and she says it was her fathers idea and she wasn't going to go but he made her and she was glad he did! She said she was asking questions of her father (this is the man who screwed her and her brother and mother, has told me horror stories about how he acted and done the most awful things since I've known her, and she wants his advice?) so he thought she should go. So, I say she must have known for a while, you don't just show up at his office. She said only a week! I say why with her dad, why not with me if she thinks all is so easy. Why not tell me she was going once she knew and this way she wouldn't be hiding it from me? No answer.

Now the good part...she says that since we are going to share custody of our D, it will be easy and won't have any bad effects on her. I hate this thing she has about how D doesn't hurt kids, it's how you act. I tell her that since she is 14, she should be able to have a say in where she lives and she probably would choose to stay here with me (my W hates our home so I know she won't live here and she wants to live with her new friends in another town) this got her angry and she accused me of turning our D against her! Told me that my D said she told her that I was "weeping" on the way to school after we had a fight (this was a long time ago, not long after B-day and I was so angry I took it out on my D. When I realized what I was doing I was so upset with myself I did get teary and told her how sorry I was) and that I told her mom is going through a hard time or MLC. Now, I never said MLC to my D. My older D said once when the 3 of us were together and she stayed out all night drinking, "Can anyone say MLC?" as a joke but since, every time my W acts out (very often) they both say this but W wants to blame me. That I am a monster that wants to take away her D and not let me see her because I don't like that she doesn't want me anymore. How everyone tells her I'm going to do awful things but she didn't believe them but now she knows they are true. Told me what a horrible person I am how she can no longer trust me, never has. Told me she saw a blog post where I said awful, untrue things about her and now knows that's how I REALLY feel about her. Said some even better stuff none of which was true, and I had enough. I got very angry.

I told her she was the one doing the "awful" things, like hiding money, locking me out of email accounts and seeing a L after saying just 2 weeks before she had no intention of doing so. That she picked our D's big day to do it when she could have done it any time. How she is the one who has refused to try MC or anything except straight to "I want a D and I don't want to try". To this she said "I only told you because you asked me what was wrong and that was how I felt and I HAVE TO BE HONEST". That one just got me. Honest? I did go way too far when she brought up stuff from 15 years ago (money problems), told me in the most foul manner that I should have refinanced HER car to get a lower rate to save us money when she insisted in getting a car that cost $10,000 more than mine because she wanted a "Hybrid" and wouldn't listen that the extra cost wasn't worth it. Pretty much told me what a bad provider I was when for 15 years I was the sole income maker, we kept our kids in schools that cost more a year than most people make while she spent years lying around all day doing nothing because she was so "depressed" and I had to do everything. Not once in that time did I act any way but supportive, now I know she never stopped being depressed, she refused to do anything with me or our kids for years and lays in bed all night anxious thinking nothing but how unhappy she is. (She is the one who told me she does this, I guess she forgot) that all I've tried to do is give her space and be supportive even after all the awful things she has said and done. That she can go, in fact I'm all for it, but she isn't taking my D from me, destroying her family just because she's "unhappy" and wants to blame me. Yeah, I know, stupid.

She tore into me telling me if I would just be resonable but no, I want to hurt her by keeping our D from her! She went on about how she didn't trust me, how I let our D's watch "bad" TV shows (they are 18 and 14. The 18 year old and I watch Game of Thrones together and it can get racy and ONE TIME my 14 year old was in the room when a sex scene came on and since turning 14 I found out she watches South Park and I guess my W doesn't like that) how I'm using bad drugs (I'm on testosterone replacement therapy, my T levels are low due to an injury I had in the past) even though she is on hormone replacement herself, I watch too much TV (we have no money so I haven't been going out, maybe watch 2 hours a day and not every day) and the kicker for me was the same Dr. who told her that she needed antidepressants because she had a "bad marriage" told her that as soon as she moves out, she can go off them! Can you believe this guy! I doubt he said this (if he did he's an awful DR.) but she wants so badly for this to be.

She went on to tell me that the reason she didn't do anything with me or the kids when she went back to work is because she "doesn't like" me. She's just not attracted to me and didn't want to spend time with me so didn't. That I'm the only thing that makes her unhappy. In fact our D said that everyone in the house is unhappy and that's my fault. Not her refusing to be a mother, not her depression/ anxiety, not her sleeping on the couch, not her constant yelling, not the fact that she no longer thinks it's bad to hurt your kids, not her wanting a D (no, she says it started long before that), it's all because of the fact that I'm unattractive to her now and as soon as she leaves our home all will magicly be right and she won't even need antidepressants.

She also said that when she wants to talk about our R all I say is "If you're unhappy, it's not because of me or our marriage" and that she wants to get me a T-shirt that says this. I started saying that when every time I made a change she asked for she would say "I shouldn't have had to ask for a D before you would do something". What am I supposed to say? I take responsibility for any stupid crap she comes up with (even if I don't feel that way), validate her feelings, tell her if she wants to go that's up to her but I'd rather she didn't, that I understand that she is going through a bad time but she won't let me near her or only seems to want to blame me when I really don't have the power to make her happy no matter how badly I'd like to, only she can choose to be that way or not. That I have every right to be angry at her for the way she went from saying she had no thoughts of D and my getting a vasectomy to 12 weeks later saying she does want a D and has felt that way for "years".

As for why I'm so awful....as unbelievable as this sounded I don't do enough around the house! I clean the bathrooms, the kitchen, the sinks, the living room, make sure the kids get fed, pick them up, drop them off, vacuum, do the dishes, take care of the dogs, pay the bills. I can't think of a single thing she actually does around here! Next, I watch too much TV. Like I said, only about 2 hours and only days I'm not doing something else. She even said that I don't "anymore" (I never did) but that's only been for a few months. Of course she spends hours a day texting and playing video games and listening to music so loud everyone has to run away to get some peace. That she just doesn't "trust" me. Trust me to do or not do what, she can't say. I think she understands that I hate what she is doing and is so afraid I'm going to start acting towards her the way most people act towards a S who does what she is!

At the end I calmed her down and said that as much as I might like, I can't hate her. That it's her own fears that drive her thoughts about what I will or won't do and as much as you seem to not want to believe it, I never would keep her from her D. Of course so far this morning she has bugged me to start doing things that like change the phones from my name, get paperwork, acting like all is just so fine. She also started on D's school and wanting "us" to go around looking at schools since she won't pay any part of D's school next year.

Like I said, I hate what she is doing to our marriage and me but accept that. It's the screwing around with the kids lives and now knowing she wants to do exactly what I don't want (one week with me, one with her, not taking my D's wants into consideration) that makes me think so badly of her. I know I messed up but she just said such horrible things. I pride myself on how I was able to keep things going even when she was sick and I had to do it all, alone. How hard I worked to make enough money to allow her to stay home, the sacrifices I made that now she seems to forget. I was already angry because of the things she's been doing over the last couple days and this spew on me, this telling me that she knows I'm going to do horrible things that I never would just because I said "my D", not "our D" when I told her that I would never keep her from her. She would talk over me when I was answering her questions like a 15 year old! I had had a very long day and was so tired already. I don't want to deal with her on this until her father leaves as she acts different when he's around but she keeps pushing.

Sorry about the long post but I wanted to get it all out and down while fresh in my mind. I know I really badly messed up by getting angry. I know that was a huge mistake and feel bad about that. If only she could have waited until the kids were done school but she does what she wants when she wants and can't seem to stop no matter how I tell her to stop I don't want to deal with this now. I will now need to sit down with my D and tell her she defin. won't be going to the school she wants. I will not lie to her like my W wants me to and will tell her the truth. I will not give her platitudes like "Mommy just doesn't love daddy anymore" she deserves better than that. Until this is done, I don't care about phones or car loans or anything. She wants something from me she can wait or do it herself. I'm just too burned right now and need time to heal.

[BrightFuture]

Wow, Matt. Your W wants to load all that baggage she is dealing with right no your shoulders. It almost sounds like she is obsessed with creating as much blame as she possibly can.

So, you watch too much TV... Did you ask her what she would like you to do instead?

Don’t beat yourself up for getting angry. You’ve been patient for so long. Honestly I’m impressed how much you take from your W and try to be supportive at the same time. Hang in there.

[TL72*]

It's good for you to vent. journal all you can.
don't get sucked into her drama.
Don't argue with her. Walk away. You can say "I'll get back to you on that" You cannot fix this.
You are reacting. You cannot control her you can only control you and your responses. "I'm sorry you feel that way". have you seen a lawyer yet? remember to protect yourself. I'm pretty sure you've read all the resources because I've seen your responses to others including myself. You just have a hard time applying it to your own sitch. The process works, let it. going to a divorce group that meets locally is helpful or an IC. I wish I could offer more advice but I don't have children so I can't. Hang in there, breathe, go for a walk or to a movie, you'll get through this Matt.

[Matt165]

Thanks TL,
I've been sitting here all day after picking up my D and feeling like such a loser! I knew better than to react but I let her get to me. The thing is she knows what she is doing is so wrong I can tell by how she ended our "talk" last night. She feels so guilty about what she is doing but she can't stop herself. The thing is she doesn't do anything but go to work and hang out with her friends every now and then. It's like she expects whoever she is with to give her a life, not make one on her own. Just like she expects her S to "make her happy". Sorry, nowhere in my vows do I remember promising her that!

She tells me she wants me to "do more" outside the home, hang out with "friends" etc. but how does that make a difference in our marriage? What is wrong with me wanting to see and be with my kids and wife? She works late so often, we never see her anyway so the few nights she didn't work late I wouldn't know if she was going to be home or not. What was I supposed to do when I tried to make plans, she would always not want to go out anyway. Now, in her rewrite of history it was because she "doesn't like me" well, she would tell me she loved me often, never asked me to watch less TV. The stuff about not trusting me is all in her head. She has had trust issues since we met because of her father. I was the man she trusted. The one she could always count on. Now in her MLC, her dad has become the person she thinks she can count on and I the "bad" man.

She talks about this blog post I wrote and when ever she sees me on the computer she tells me not to tell lies about her. I tell her that whatever I write is what I feel about anything, the way I see it. No one knows who I am or who she is but she says "I hate that you tell lies about me" but how can I lie when I talk about how I see something and what's it matter to her anyway? I think the problem is I was too close to the truth and somewhere inside she knows it. Why get this angry unless she really saw herself in what I wrote.

The part that hurts most is that I have tried to be supportive. I have given her so much while she spews on me and blames me for her being unhappy. Blaming me for asking her what was wrong as she was acting so horrible towards me so she HAD to tell me the truth (she wanted a D and didn't want to even try) is unbelievable to me. She acts as if I hadn't asked her she wouldn't have said anything and things would be different.

You know the day after B-day she fainted at work. She wasn't sick and they found nothing wrong with her. I think it was her realizing what she had said and done and the fear it gave her. Mach keeps discounting her fathers role in this but when he isn't around, she is so much nicer and admits that she only went to the L because he made her go (she's "glad" he did but...). She doesn't even see that by not telling me she lied to me. She knew she was going, if she thought we were going to be all happy and do "the right thing" in her mind, why not ask me to go with her? She is a sneak and hates what she is doing. She tells me she is depressed/anxious but when I say something about it she says she's not. Then why the pills? Well, the dr says she can go off them as soon as she moves out! If he really said that he is a terrible dr. as he would need to see if she was feeling better. I know he just divorced his wife of 25 years and is probably an MLCer himself!

She ended last night saying now she knows that I think she is a horrible person. That she thought I cared about her and that she cares about me but that now she KNOWS I really hate her and am going to make her kids hate her too. While I'm honest with the kids and answer their questions when they ask, I never say bad things or blame her. In fact yesterday when my D said she didn't want her at her school party I told my D that was mean and wrong. Then I come home to that. The last 2 things I told her were that I don't hate her, I wanted to at times but I can't. That I have given her the closest thing to unconditional love any person can give another for more than 20 years and if I could just turn it off I would. I'm 99.99% sure she is going to divorce me but here I am giving her support, worrying about her, trying to help her and for her to think that I hate her or think she is some horrible beast is just so wrong. The last thing was I came out of the bedroom and told her I was sorry for losing my temper and yelling at her. She said she was sorry as well but then this morning she started in on making plans for our divorce when she had told me she wasn't in a hurry and that she knows a woman who has been separated from her H for a year and they still get along and could see us doing something like that. Again, once her dad got here it all changed once again.

It just hurts so much to hear this person say the awful things she did about me. And then to hear the trivial things she was so "unhappy" about with me. Things that she even says I no longer am doing (she admitted I don't watch as much TV over the last several months and I have been doing my own stuff). These are the small kind of problems that can be worked out by married couples just by talking them over. Why must she go right to getting a D? Why does she blame me for turning the kids against her? Why is it when I tell her I don't like the set up (one week with me, one week with her) that means I'm trying to keep her away from her child? Like Mach says, you can't have a rational conversation with an irrational person, I guess.

Sorry for the vent and how long this post is TL. I"m so appreciative to you for getting in touch as it's been an awful day. I'll admit, today I am watching way too much TV! My D is so upset that she's been in her room all day. She hasn't heard from her mother who was supposed to take her out tonight but I think she is trying to get her daddy to get her a new iphone because she doesn't want to be on the same plan with me (again, her fathers idea and he took her to the store. We have no money and she thinks she can spend on herself again!). So, here I am once again she is out playing daddy/daughter with the man who has tried to end her marriage and she knows it and says it's because "No one is good enough for his little girl" for years and is disappointing her daughter and showing her that she doesn't matter to her at all. It's just so raw right now and I need to center myself. At least now I'll be able to do more as the kids are done school and I won't need to pick them up.

[AJM]

Your W wants to load all that baggage she is dealing with right no your shoulders. It almost sounds like she is obsessed with creating as much blame as she possibly can.

It just hurts so much to hear this person say the awful things she did about me. And then to hear the trivial things she was so "unhappy" about with me

Matt, I haven't really posted to you before, but can I say... What T2 and Mach posted to you? Read that again.

I get that you're hurting. I get that you're hurting for you, the loss of your marriage and for how she treats your daughter. For the bat-sh** crazy stuff she says and for blaming you!

I get it because I've lived it. As have many here.

Know what? You're killing yourself and accepting some of the bat-sh** crazy stuff she's saying. I'm not criticizing the reasons - you want to protect them both.

Know what will help all of you? Stop accepting her bat-sh** crazy stuff and stop having expectations of anything else about her. Understand this alien is not the person you know. This is a person who has some deep issues to deal with. You can't help her. You aren't to blame. Since you aren't, and you didn't cause the issues, you can't fix them nor protect her from herself.

Believe me.

You can however, do what you know to be right. You can have no expectations of your W. Let that go. Understand she is going to blame you, she is going to hurt you, and she is going to hurt your daughter with her actions. That is a fact of life, amigo.

It's not forever. She'll come around to your daughter at some point. They'll figure out what their relationship is going to look like. You may not be there, nor as T2 mentioned, want to be. You can protect your daughter's relationship with her mother a little bit by being you. By understanding it's not about you, no matter how much W tries to blame you. She will continue that.

Stop the conversations with her. She wants to be gone, help her pack her things. Be her friend if you can, but don't have expectations of her in any way. That will only set you up for disappointment. Serious disappointment and that will affect your daughter as well as you.

Drop the expectations. Stop listening and internalizing her bat-sh** crazy accusations. They won't stop until you do. Even then, they may not. But you won't be affected by them any longer and that's important.

She kicks you in the shins and blames you for it. That's abuse. That's nuts. That's not your place. That's not helpful to anyone.

Believe me, I was in your shoes at one point. I've heard the same things over the years. Some of it so crazy I actually laughed till it hurt (quietly; I'm not insensitive).

But it's not you and it's not something you can help. Your W has to figure this stuff out for herself and you are still in the way as long as you internalize it or give it weight.

You're not perfect, but you didn't cause this.

Help her pack and get a lawyer. Protect yourself and your daughter and understand your W won't be happy with the outcome not matter what you do. So it doesn't matter in the scheme of things what you do to protect yourself. Except to you and your daughter.

Don't wait Matt. Zero expectations and a lawyer. You'll do it now or you'll do it later, but it's better if you do it now.

And keep venting. There's a lot to vent

Peace,
AJ

[Matt165]

Thanks AJM.
I wish I could stop interacting with her but now she is insisting on sending my D away 1000 miles with a man who is the most awful person on the planet. Not only that, now she refuses to leave! She wants to "save money" first and when I insisted she still refused saying its her house to. Just goes to show whatever I want, she wants the opposite!

Worse part is that she wants to send her NOW. In a few days! When it comes to her father she is crazy. Now she wants to take back everything she ever said about him because that isn't true any longer. She now is telling me that all the [censored] he did to my D's either never happened or was directed at me and of course now that I'm evil that's fine.

Now she is saying how wrong it was to trust me how she should have known I would be horrible and do horrible things. Now she is even saying bad things about MY parents who have never been anything but kind to her and my D's.

I no longer have expectations, in fact I expect her to do the wrong thing. God must be listening and I hope he can somehow save my D from the s$& storm my W is bringing down on all of us! How my W will be able to handle looking back at what she is doing now IF she ever does come out of this beyond me. She can't handle the small problems we've had over the years without falling into depression. I don't ever see her allowing herself to come to terms with what she is doing now.... She'll just stay in her safe tunnel and keep blaming me. Easier that way.

Thanks again AJM. I needed to hear what you said and I'm trying. I just wish my W would let me take a breath without trying to do something that not just effects me but my D as well.

[Italian]

Matt,

don't beat yourself up about this. We're human, they know exactly which buttons to push to drive us to the edge, so it's completely understadable to snap at some point. We're not saints with infinite patience. My ex did exactly all the things I most despise at the very worst possible time - grandma had just died and I had just days before important deadlines for work and uni - and I know the only reason I didn't snap and get furious (as it would be my right to do so!) was because I was numb to the shock.

But once that wanes off, the anger will come. I am doing my best but I am taking into account that I might do something similar to what you did in the future, because everyone has their limit and sometimes we just get tipped over.

A big hug. We're all doing our best here, but as I said, we're just human.

[cat04]

It really wasn't my fault but of course it was totally my fault because I allowed myself to get drawn into her awfulness. I should have been stronger, ignored her, but instead I let how I feel about the way she is acting at this point in time get to me.

Yes this was your first mistake because you are not detatched.

You don't necessarily have to ignore them. These conversations can be good because it gives us insight and if approached correctly, with listening and validation, we can show our changes.

It started when, after all the missing our D's grad events, the trying to send her away, all that I have posted about, she found another way to screw her and me.

Do you really think your W is intentionally trying to screw you or your children? I don't think you are seeing the bigger picture here. One thing I learned through this is that they often feel that are doing what needs to be done for them and they don't have the intention to "screw" anyone.

About half an hour before we were going to leave, my W texts and offers to bring bottles of water from the store so I don't have to pick some up. OK, that would be nice. Well we wait for over an hour and still no W.

I have to say that I am not clear why you waited so long before you texted your W. She was trying to do something nice. This was clearly poor communication on both of your parts.

While it would be nice for your W to accept her role in this, I would like to see you accept YOUR role in it instead of just placing blame and harboring anger at her.

I say why with her dad, why not with me if she thinks all is so easy. Why not tell me she was going once she knew and this way she wouldn't be hiding it from me?

I am going to burst this bubble and answer this for your W.

I don't know anyone who has considered D take their S with them to the consultation with the lawyer. That is just not how it is done. Regardless of how easy it might be.

And more often than not, the appointment happens and then it gets discussed.

Matt, she is trying to separate her life from yours. She is going to do things on her own. She isn't hiding things from you because in her mind, you aren't entitled to know everything in her life anymore.

With your angry rant, you pushed her to say some of the things that she said. Whether she actually believes them or meant them is still to be seen. However, when backed into a corner, people will often come out swinging.

She also said that when she wants to talk about our R all I say is "If you're unhappy, it's not because of me or our marriage" and that she wants to get me a T-shirt that says this. I started saying that when every time I made a change she asked for she would say "I shouldn't have had to ask for a D before you would do something". What am I supposed to say?

What I bolded is very familiar to me and I really wanted to point this out to you.

I can believe that you actually said this to your W and I think you believe it because you have said very similar things to posters here. You seem to have a problem accepting responsibility for things. Seeing other people's sides.

Which I find ironic only because you talk about your W thinking you write "lies" about her and you simply say it is how YOU see things.

Do you realize that each person is individual and has their own experience in the same situation. So what you see, feel, and experience is NOT the same as what your W sees, feels, and experiences. And sometimes, it is actually very different.

The fact that we see things here that you then report are very similar to things your W complains about...

Those are the things that you really should be looking at.

Taking responsibility for our actions is great.

However it only means anything if we choose to make changes to those types of behaviors in the future. Unless of course, we are comfortable with those behaviors.

Personally, I don't believe I would be comfortable with that sort of "I am right, it's your fault" thinking all of the time.

And I want to comment on what you said about Mach discounting your FIL's involvement in this. He isn't discounting his role, just pointing out that you are putting too much importance on it.

You yourself said your FIL is the "OP". They do influence our S's, however if it wasn't him, the odds are it would be someone else.

The responsibility for this is on your W. By discounting her role, you discredit her. You take away her ability to think for herself, make decisions, and be an adult.

Truth is, you may not like the choices she is making, however, she is making them.

And you don't have to like them.

[Matt165]

I understand what you are saying cat. At this point in time my W and I disagree strongly about custody of my D. The things she has said over the last 2 days show me that she will not take what I feel is best into account and if I disagree with any part of what she wants, she tells me I'm a monster who wants to keep her away from her D, which is not the case.

Now she wants to send my D 1000 miles away to be with a man she knows has hurt her (but she now says that he has changed yet she is the only one to see it). What if she or her father don't like the custody arrangements? How do I know he won't keep her as she will be out of our home state if she doesn't like what the court comes up with? This is a man who was wanted in my W's home state for years for non payment of CS.

When my oldest D was up there visiting when she was 6 or 7 she was molested by a little girl who was staying with them. I don't trust him. I don't want him to be part of my D's life and I can easily see him doing exactly what I think.

Cat, I do take responsibility for my part. I just don't get what I did that was so terrible and my W can't tell me except the stupid stuff she comes up with. What do you suggest? I haven't been able to get her to come up with anything but stuff from 20 years ago and that she doesn't trust me now to not turn her kids against her. I didn't do anything that would in the least be thought of as a reason not to "trust" me!

I know you are trying to help but when I get "I knew I should have listened to everyone who keeps saying you will be horrible. I didn't think so but now I do" because I don't want to send her away with her dad, how does that put any responsibility on me? I keep hearing her say over and over that she was afraid this would happen or that would happen how am I responsible for her unfounded fears? She needs to wait until we work out our arrangements for D and custody before she starts pushing for something she knows I will never want!

When all I hear from her as to why she wants out so badly is that she is "unhappy" and can't give me good reasons why I'm the cause (and has told me many times she isn't sure I am but she needs to "feel better" and maybe once we are apart it will turn out to be me) of her unhappiness. I have and am trying to work on the things about myself that need changing, everyone has them. But I really don't know what I did to make her so unhappy she wants to change every value she ever had and throw away her family.

I am serious about needing your help here. When her main reason for leaving is something that happened 20 years ago and I can't go back and change the past, how do I fix that? I tried right after B-day writing her a letter taking responsibility for my actions back then, talked about how it must have made her feel, how stupid I was, how since then I have done all that I could to make certain it never happened again and make up for the pain I caused. But I can't go back and change the past, if I could, I would. For a long time after that she stopped blaming the past. Now she is back onto that.

I know you trying to help and get me to understand how I played a part in the ending of our marriage and I know there has to be more as well as you do. But if I can't get her to tell anything but the small things or to blame me for every problem we ever had over the years, what do I need to do?

I know if I agreed with her that her father is a "changed" man and just agreed to send my D away with him, she would like that but I can't do that. I will not gamble with my D's well being that she is right and all the realitives that are telling my oldest D that he has been bad mouthing her are lying like my W seems to think.

I know letting her get under my skin and lose my cool was wrong, I do feel bad about it but I have not lost my cool in a very long time. I have tried to be supportive and let her be. I just can't detach when she is telling me she will send my D away whether I like it or not. When she starts off with that and all that has been happening around both my D's, not to mention that I had a very long day of grad and parties and it was after midnight and I was so very tired, it just got to me.

As for saying I don't think it's our marriage that is the cause of her unhappiness all I can say is that came after her saying she's unhappy and her not being able to say how I or our marriage were to blame. I would ask her to help me fix the things that caused this. That I know she is unhappy and of course that isn't what I want anymore than she doesn't want to feel that way. That if it really is me I would get out of her way in a heartbeat. And I meant it. But I couldn't ever get her to be able to say anything but she just "feels" that way. Or she tried everything else she could think of and this has to be the answer or that her dr told her it was her "bad marriage" and that she won't be depressed as soon as she leaves me. What do you say to that? I tried saying I understand how awful she must feel, how other then leaving what did she want me to do and she couldn't say. That was when I started to say I don't think it's me or her marriage. Also when I stopped having any R talks unless she insists.

If she wants her father to be a part of our D's life that is fine as long as she doesn't expect that to include sending her 1000 miles away without either of us being there. He wants to visit, fine. But I really don't think she should go up there to be with him for months at a time and that doesn't make me a monster, does it?

I'm past saving my marriage. I see now that it's more important that my W gets what SHE wants no matter what I think. She is determined to replay her teen years with her dad this time with him being the loving one she always longed for, not the man who didn't even want her there and she can't do that with me around. That shouldn't mean I let her drag our D into this as well, right? Maybe I'm to upset or wrapped up in this to see that I'm wrong. What do you think. Do I trust that her father has changed? Do I trust her judgement? Even knowing he wants my W to leave me and go off leaving the kids with me so he can make up for all the bad things he did? Seriously, am I seeing this wrong?