Dealing with an ongoing affair

[sandi2]

I would hardly tell her to call or text now! You really need to get yourself grounded. One minute you are thinking about exposing the A to OM's W, the next you laying on the bed kissing your W.....then wonder if you should tell her to call before she brings her mother on Mother's Day after you ve already discussed her coming over.

The way you wrote the post, it sounded as if she asked if you wanted to hold her. But either way, you should have refused. And no, you don't have to be fully reconciled before you hold her.....but you did it before knowing any information! The point being.......you are not helpless nor a puppet. Don't act like a love sick pup with a woman who is unfaithful to you. It doesn't matter if she did want to be held. That was the time to show her your strength....not your weakness. You should have told her that it wasn't that simple. Now she knows all it takes to get her back in the house is a little kissing and holding and you are good to go.

I can almost promise you that as soon as she calls herself "back home again", those affectionate moves you saw today will vanish.

What happened to that long, long list? Maybe you should revist it.

You won't have to request proof the A has ended. Makes no difference. The hard part is getting over it. Only she can get OM out of her head. She will go through withdrawal, and if she doesn't then that's your proof. If you are smart, you will have a transparency plan in place. If she really wants the M to work, she will be willing to see a good MC with you to help with the reconciling. If she doesn't, that's proof, as well.

My suggestion, for whatever it's worth, is to get through tomorrow and not promise her anything until you have think it through more. But I think you will discover if you even suggest T holding her off....she will be furious. You see, unless you failed to disclose it in your post.....she hasn't shown remorse for the A. It will be. Big mistake to take her back if she's not remorseful. Her holding onto old grudges and trying to justify her A, or wanting to just pick up where the M left off without doing the difficult work.......is more proof.

By the way, the burden of proof is on her......not you. She is the one who should work to get your trust again. Don't let her turn this around.

[PeterV2]

But I think you will discover if you even suggest T holding her off....she will be furious.

What do you mean by "T".

Yeah. I was weak and fell for her. I've learned. I'll dust myself off and get back on the horse. If she comes to me all lovey dovey I'll just tell her it's not that simple. I can't just take her back because she wants to come home. Yes, she needs to feel remorse. I need to ask her what her plan is to reconcile and rebuild trust. I has to be her plan. I can't impose it, but I can ask her how she plans on reconciling. I won't let her move back home without a plan to reconcile. And that includes seeing a MC, dropping the grudges and presenting a plan for transparency. She has to come up with the transparency plan and if I accept it then the burden of proof will be on her.
Thanks Sandi for your insight!

[sandi2]

I had deleted and rewritten part of that sentence that didn't make sense. I think I was trying to say that she will be angry if you want the two of you to attend MC before she moves back home. B/c she's tired of the RH and wants to go home. But once she gets home, it will be really difficult to get her to go to MC.

You see, this her plan B. her plan A (OM) didn't work out. So this is her fall back plan (home) which of course, you go with the home. Sorry for being so blunt, but I don't want you to get all hoped up by yesterday's event, only to get shot down by her.

She knows she has to be a little nicy-nice to get back home. She will tolerate enough to make you think she is over OM and the M can resume. She will believe you are going to be so happy to have her home, that it will probably come as a shock to find out there are stipulations.

When the WAW in an A has not reached the stage of remorse, (and it does take time), she can be quite arrogant and rebellious toward her H. If she is unwilling to talk about her actions regarding the A and how she treated you.......and she wants to turn the tables and drag up things about you, it's a sign she still harbors a closed heart for her H. As long as that heart is closed to you, there will not be the warm intimate love in your M.

Full reconciliation is not easy! It usually takes at least a couple of years of HARD work. If she does not seem "willing" to put effort into that work, and if she's not willing to be transparent and go to MC......then you essentially still have a WAW in heart/mind.

You are the betrayed, so you can give her the conditions that will help you to feel safe in the R and help you to learn to trust her again. It is fine if you want to see what she will volunteer, but if it's not enough, tell her what else you require.

Now here's the thing with transparency, it is not about controlling what she does. It is about her not putting up any type of shield to prevent you seeing what she does.

You are the one to tell her your stipulations. Examples could be: No carry phone to bed, no calls behind closed doors or leaving the room to talk on phone. All computer activity is open, and no computer activity after bedtime (or you have gone to bed). Call to let you know when she's coming home or some type of knowledge of her whereabouts.

That's just a few. Some men have their W to write a letter to OM telling him to never contact her again and that she and H have decided to work on the M. You watch and read the letter, and if it's an email......have her cc your name and then send it to OM.

It doesn't prevent them from contacting each other. There are too many ways. It is for you to see her willingness, or lack thereof. You should be able to see her attitude and determine how sincere she is about rebuilding a M with you. This is not pleasant for the W, but it is not punishment. It doesn't have to last forever, just until you are convinced she is over OM.

Despite what she may say, it will take months before she truly has OM out of her system. Her brain has to withdraw from those love chemicals that the A supplied. This first month is the hardest. If there is any type of contact, it will trigger those chemicals and she will have to start back at square one again.

So today, I would not discuss the R, if she you can hold her off. However, after yesterday, I think she will assume the light is green to move back. I doubt she says anything, and just comes home. She make casually make reference to coming home. If so, that is when you should tell her (if it's not in front of others) that the two of you need to discuss things further.

Btw, a really good solution based MC seems hard to find, but stick with it. There are some lousy C out there who can mess people up more than they were in the beginning! But there are some good ones, and you need guidance in piecing the M back together again.

However, first things first.

[indigo1]

Sandi is spot on in everything. I recently went through all of this very same thing. W let me come back too soon and it was hell for the first couple months. At first W was still in contact with OM. Not in person just over the phone and text messages. I finally have to put my foot down and tell her if it continued I was gone. I had my W change her phone number, block OM, take all the blocks off of phone,ipad, computer. It has been a long and tough road getting over all of this. My W is extremely sorry for everything now. If you are like me you will know when it is truly over with OM. I could sense when it was going on and was never wrong. When you have been with someone long enough it is easy to tell when something is "off".

My W even admitted at first it was hard to let go of contact so be prepared for that. She now hates even the thought of OM and regrets everything she did. W is completely in love with me again so it can happen!! You need to set those boundaries and let her know you mean business! This will not be easy if she moves back. The hardest part was getting it out of my head long after the contact with OM ended. I still think about it and have thoughts pop into my head. This crap is not easy! If you really stick in there you can have a stronger M than ever. Just be prepared for a long tough road ahead if she comes back. I wish you the best of luck, it can be done!

[PeterV2]

I've been thinking. If she mentions moving back home I'll tell her:
It's not that easy. You moved out of our M a year ago when you made the decision to have an A and you moved out of our house in November, a month before I discovered your A. You can't just waltz back into this house and my life like nothing happened. I do not want a M like we had before. I want a new M and that will take work on both our parts, and until I can see that the A is over and that OM is out of your head completely then that process cannot even begin.
And I would appreciate the courtesy of you calling or texting me before coming over to the house, as I do for your place.

[indigo1]

I agree the A has to be completely over before you can work on your M. You can continue to show a new and better you in the time leading up to that point. The hardest part for me was knowing my W was still chatting it up with OM while I was trying to be this new happier and understanding man to my W. Only when it stopped could we truly work on our M. Stay strong and just remember you only have control of yourself and not her. I know how hard it can be, but its all you can do.

I would not confront her on how she cannot just waltz back into the house. She does need to know that if OM is in the picture you are not.

[PeterV2]

Indigo1, thank you for the advice and hopefully message. Today we had a Mother's Day lunch at the Keg and had a lot of laughs. W, me, mum, D & SIL. Then we went to SIL's mum's place for a visit and then W, Mum & I went for a nice drive in the countryside. Dropped W & mum off at the RH and came home.
W called me up and hung on the phone as long as she could. Before the end of the call she said she really liked holding me the other day. I told her I liked it too. I think she's starting to come around, but like you & Sandi2 say, I need to be strong and insist that the OM is out of her head, that a transparency plan is in place and that she is willing to get MC before she moves back home.
Tomorrow we're going to take her mum to get her ticket back to S.Africa. It'll be another day spent with her & her mum. I'm totally supporting her mum's situation and W really is appreciative of that. We had a heart to heart phone conversation tonight. Talked about a lot of things. But no mention of remorse for the A. Still waiting for that. I'm not saying "I love you" anymore. Still struggling to stay detached. I must stay detached until I have definitive proof that the OM is out of the picture. True what you say: I know when she's lying and when she's seeing him. We've been together long enough that I just know when things aren't right. But I haven't had that feeling in the past week, so maybe she was right when she said her A was over. Still I don't trust her and I need to get the transparency plan in place. Thank you for your support & advice. It truly is appreciated from all of you on this forum. This is indeed the hardest thing I've done in my life.

[PeterV2]

We had a fairly good day. She commented on how calm I was and that she liked that. She doesn't sleep well at night because she has to awake at 3am to do her rounds in the RH and then again at 7am when the morning staff comes in. Then she sleeps again until 9ish. So her broken sleep is affecting her ability to cope. Her mum got an extra week to stay in Canada and she is glad about that. W told me that her and I should go away for a week together after her mum has left. That the first time she's mentioned us going away together. She again commented how nice it was to be held by me on Saturday - that she needed that. I'm trying to be empathetic and caring while maintaining detachment. It's a hard position to maintain. She said she wants to come by my house later to work out (she can't really do that at the RH). I said ok. After we dropped mum off she asked to go for a drive so we did. She told me she's not sure if she's fit to live with anyone - best just to be on her own. She said she feels like she's dishonoured herself and she feels ashamed (No mention yet of remorse, but I think it's just a matter of time).
Yes, Sandi2, I think that I could be plan B but I also think that she may be trying to come to terms with her poor choices. At this time though, she is a bit overwhelmed with her mum's deportation on top of all the other issues in her life. She is still suffering from burn-out from the RH job. She also has mother issues from a lousy childhood that she's still dealing with, hence she feels very conflicted about her mum's departure. I will just empathize and care about her. It's all I can do right now.

[sandi2]

Was she emotional when she said she was ashamed of herself, like sad? Or did she sound kind of angry at herself?

How did you respond?

[PeterV2]

She was sad. Distraught that her life is not good right now. I
didn't respond. I didn't know what to say. So best not to say anything. I think my silence spoke volumes though.