stumps, have been reading a little bit about your situation and wanted to drop a quick note.
You seem to be doing really well - especially given that you have only recently found yourself in this situation. I think that I was in shock and reacting from a purely emotionally place for way too long.
Congratulations on your handling of the situation and the progress you have made so far...... My guess is that you are already aware of this but many of your W's actions are very typical and it's probably best as you mentioned above to not point these things out or follow up. Right now, let her dictate the pace a bit I think would be the appropriate course of action.
Keep working on becoming the best you that you can be and stay strong!
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Man, really appreciate all the comments. Particularly because I'm having a bit of a low moment. When we talked last night, W and I discussed my options for after she moves in with her parents, and it's looking like the most realistic one (due to finances/cost of living) is for me to move a couple of hours away.
W certainly hadn't been prepared for that ("I didn't think you'd go so far away" is what I think she said), and honestly, I never envisioned being so far away from my kids... I just don't know how else to work it. I live in literally one of the most expensive regions in the country, and was only able to do so because I had a team mate. If my partner goes, I haven't been able to figure out a way to stay close by...not yet anyway.
So anyway, thinking about the kids has gotten me in kind of a low place...and has got me thinking about a lot of stuff that I've previously been able to stop myself from dwelling on.
Thinking about how one of my favorite memories of our marriage/friendship was created in the past week, post-bomb drop...
And thinking about how W's parents went through a pretty bad time when she was a kid (her mom cheated on her dad for a long time) but they pulled through and have been married for 30+ years. I catch myself wanting to ask W if she thinks she and her siblings would be better off/happier if her parents had divorced...
Mainly though, I think about missing my best friend, because that's what W undoubtably still is. And W says she feels the same way, but that she's just never going to be happy in this marriage. She's convinced of it. I don't know if she discussed moving out/telling the kids in her IC session today or not, but I hope we have enough time left in this house together for her resolve to waiver... Obviously W is in a different head space (obviously!) than I am because I can't imagine voluntarily putting an end to the way things have been for the past month. She agrees that we've been having such a great time together...that things have been the way they should have been all along. Can't imagine trying to cut losses and preemptively put an end to things, but W says that's where she is right now.
So... have to keep doing what I'm doing...but gotta get better at the detachment too.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
Very low, internally, right now. One of my greatest successes is keeping W from seeing the internal struggle...a struggle that for the most part I've been handling well. But for some reason the last couple of days have been rough. Like I said, I'm hiding it, but it's there.
Despite doing well with 180s/GAL, I'm really missing my W...even though we're in the house together and getting along well. But I'm missing the part of our R that isn't there right now...the part that takes it from a friendship to a marriage. I've mentioned before, it's not the lack of sex per se, it's the lack of physical contact. She still hugs me, she still asks for massages, but there is a lack of something that is *almost* a *need* for me, not just something I want or like. My W is a woman who was up against me almost all the time...at home, out in public, on the couch, or in bed she was almost always on me like glue. Touching me, petting me, holding hands.
I feel like I'm going through withdrawal from that sometimes. I've even caught myself thinking a couple of times that if she's truly done with me then she should just move out so I can get through the withdrawal and then move on. Am I an attention junkie? An affection junkie? I don't know... but I've even caught myself thinking about taking my ring off so I can catch other women's eyes...and I'm a man who has never even thought about being with another woman during my M (well, aside from the normal healthy ability to recognize that there are other attractive people out there). But you know, I've never thought about cheating or had a desire to be with someone else...but now...I'm missing something in my life that was snatched away unceremoniously and it's absence is really getting to me.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
Keep thinking... maybe I should tell W to move out. She brought it up herself the other night, saying she thought she should. When I told her to go whenever she was ready she said not until she knew what my plan is...not until I knew exactly where I would be living because her moving out and telling the kids was going to be contingent on that.
But it doesn't have to work like that. Her parents live 2 houses away and that's where she's planning on moving. Her dad has told me W can move in any time she's ready. He's even said he doesn't understand why she hasn't yet.
So I'm starting to envision something. She moves in with her parents, and the kids and I stay in the house. There doesn't need to be any mention of what *I* am going to do. We frame it as "W needing a break from dad", but she's still close enough to see the kids whenever she/they want.
I've been assuming that us staying under the same roof as long as possible is a good thing. That it provides the opportunity for her to see on a daily basis my 180s/GAL. But I'm starting to wonder. Her father made it clear to me that when W moves in to his house, W's life will be work and home. That he wasn't going to put up with her going out all the time and coming in at all hours (although to her credit W has curtailed a lot of that, but she still "parties" way more than any reasonable person would claim is health or wise for a married mother of two). The best I can figure is W knows this, and that's why she hasn't moved out of our home yet. Is she cake-eating? Right now she's free to come and go pretty much as she sees fit. Perhaps part of her surprise at my suggestion I'll move 2 hours away was not realizing that I won't be around to subsidize her free time anymore. Perhaps her not moving out, despite stating a couple of times that she needs to, is less about "what to tell the kids" then it is about her realizing that her lifestyle will change drastically once she moves out.
So maybe I should force the issue. Maybe I should say it's time for her to go. She hasn't explained what her "I have a renewed sense of hope" comment yesterday morning meant, but there certainly hasn't been any outward change in our sitch. So maybe I should just say "look W, if you're truly done, and you truly believe that even if things stay the way they have been for the past month you will still be unhappy in this marriage because you can't get over the past, then you should just go. Move in with your parents ASAP. There is no point in waiting."
I don't necessarily want to teach her a lesson...but I certainly wouldn't mind if life does. And I do think her moving out, and being forced to live a different lifestyle, will be an eye-opening experience for her.
I don't know. I don't know if this is rational thinking on my part, or the product of my desperation.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
Decided to try to gauge where W is and texted her a couple of days ago to ask if she wanted to grab a bite to eat somewhere for dinner. She said sure so went out after she got off work. Ended up having a very nice time and ran into a couple of very old friends of mine so we lingered for a while and hung out with them.
When we went to bed that night, W got out a small journal and said she wanted to share with me some things she had written... clearly sharing something that she doesn't let anybody else know about. Clearly sharing part of herself. I don't know what the significance is...I won't speculate...but it was definitely meaningful to her, as it was to me.
Last night I went over to the neighbors' (both 180 and GAL for me) and hung out with them after helping them get a nice fire going in their fire pit. W was just getting home from work when I got home, and when I told her where I'd been it clearly had an effect on her. She said she was glad I had a good time with the neighbors and that she was really happy seeing everyone enjoying my company and me being "the old stumps" but that it also made her really angry. Angry because I was being the person she always wanted me to be and doing all the things she always wanted me to do, but it was all happening only now when it was "too late". "Too late" because now she had negative feelings about the marriage that would never go away. She said she found it all confusing, being both angry at and happy for me, and that she loved me and always would, and didn't want to think about it anymore for the time being and just wanted to enjoy the rest of the evening with me. So we lounged on the couch for a while and held hands (sounds kind of cheesy but we used to hold hands all the time, but this was the first time she's held my hand since the bomb drop), and when we went to bed that night W wrapped her arm around me and slept that way for most of the night.
So...my take-away...
W still says she's done, so that's what I have to assume. She's even checked several times here and there to make sure I'm not thinking anything has changed in her mind, and I always tell her that my assumption is always that her feelings are just as they were on the day she told me she wanted out, and that I'm just being the best person I can be because doing so is its own reward.
However... I feel pretty safe saying W is clearly waging a battle in her heart and/or head. That's not to say she's changing or is going to change her mind. But it seems like at a time when she should be pulling and preparing to move out, she's at least part of the time engaging more and coming closer.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
W continues to display...contradictory...behavior. She came home from work last night and got into bed with me and put her head on my chest and fell asleep.
She also revealed to me that she is realizing she is severely codependent, and it has kept her from feeling like she can voice her opinions, thoughts, and feelings to me when she thinks they might hurt or anger me. She said she realizes it's not because of any negative reaction on my part, it's something inside her that prevents her from doing it, and that she realizes that's what she brought to the marital breakdown...she realizes that her stifling her feelings led to hostility and resentment and a feeling within her that the only way to escape it would be to escape the marriage. So, that's something she is making a conscious effort to address.
However, I had been thinking that maybe the reason she hasn't moved out yet is because she was having private doubts about her decision to leave. This perception of mine has been fueled by her behavior and the extent to which we're still getting along so well and doing things together...in fact, she makes a point of telling me how much she wants me around. I'm realizing though that this is maybe (ha, maybe) a case of things not being what they seem. Father-in-law told me that W was over at his house a couple of days ago, and that while she had mentioned a lot of my changes, the bulk of what she was there to talk about was "bargaining" with him about the house rules he said he was going to put in place when/if W moves in. Basically he said that at least during the week W needed to plan on having her life be "work, home, kids" and that W should know that the going out whenever and wherever that she does now wasn't going to fly in his house. FIL said W got real "huffy" about it with him.
So I'm realizing that W may not be staying in our marital home because she's waffling, but rather because in our house she has almost complete freedom to do what she wants when she wants, and that will for the most part come to an end if she moves in with her parents (plus I won't be around anymore Monday through Friday, so the bulk of the parenting that I've been doing will now fall on her). Kind of opened my eyes, and got me thinking about the trip to Atlantic City she'll be taking in a couple of weeks with her friends, and the "girls nights" out she has all the time... all of which she gets to do because I'm still around.
Kind of brought up the feeling again that maybe I should tell her she's got to move now. Try it on for size and see how she likes it.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
She also revealed to me that she is realizing she is severely codependent, and it has kept her from feeling like she can voice her opinions, thoughts, and feelings to me when she thinks they might hurt or anger me. She said she realizes it's not because of any negative reaction on my part, it's something inside her that prevents her from doing it, and that she realizes that's what she brought to the marital breakdown...she realizes that her stifling her feelings led to hostility and resentment and a feeling within her that the only way to escape it would be to escape the marriage. So, that's something she is making a conscious effort to address.
That ^^^^^^, my friend, is a major, major confession on her part. Don't fast-forward past that one too much. That is your W basically owning some of her stuff....a lot of folks here (myself included) haven't gotten that much yet. And, frankly, what she described is EXACTLY what happened to us in part.
I don't know - maybe she is bouncing back and forth, but I think the fact that she can own that is a strong positive.
That ^^^^^^, my friend, is a major, major confession on her part. Don't fast-forward past that one too much.
Crimson
Really appreciate your perspective here; you're right, I've glossed over that a bit and focused more on the revelation from my FIL that she's been talking to him about his "house rules". But the fact that W is realizing this about herself is positive movement regardless of whether or not it affects our sitch. After all, I love her enough to want her to be happy, and I don't think a person can ever be happy until they learn how to own and communicate their thoughts, feelings, and opinions.
I actually ended up talking to my IC about the codependency issue. My IC thinks that codependency is best dealt with within the marriage, but she said that plenty of counselors/therapists think otherwise and W may very well be receiving counsel from her therapist that she needs to separate/divorce in order to work on it.
As far as W and I go, we talked openly about her codependency and she said she would like to begin addressing it by "practicing" on/with me... I essentially said to her that I pledged to listen to what she had to say at any given time without judgment; that even if she had something unpleasant to say, I promised to listen to her, to really hear her without turning around and pointing a finger at her or going on the offense. And that if she ever said something that I thought was truly unfair or unjustifiable hurtful, we would discuss it constructively rather than simply arguing about it.
On another positive note (I think), last Wednesday W and I had sort of a date night and ended up having a good time. W accepted another invitation of mine to go out last night and at the end of the evening she told me it was really fun. I said I felt the same way and thanked her for accepting my invitation, and not only did she thank me for inviting her but she also suggested that we go ahead and plan for another night out together next Wednesday. So... seems like a good sign. However, the knowledge that she's been talking to FIL about what it will be like when/if she move in there...well...maybe that's a good thing in a way. Definitely keeps my from fooling myself into thinking all is well...and I guess I shouldn't be expecting any kind of full reversal from her at this stage anyway just because we seem to be establishing this date night thing.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
Had a good conversation with W as we were hanging out at the fire pit together last night. She started talking about her codependency, and said that it was something that she was committed to working on, and that as time went on she hoped I would see she was not only making progress but that the progress was real and permanent. Even more notable, W said her inspiration was seeing all of the changes that I've been making and her coming to believe that those changes of mine were real and permanent.
I'm not going to assume otherwise until she comes out and says that she's changing her mind about the D and explicitly states that she wants to work on the M, but this feels like real positive movement no matter what.
As an aside, just as we were about to call it a night and head inside, W's friend/next-door-neighbor came home from work and saw us out on the patio so she came over and sat and talked with us a bit. Afterward as she was heading back over to her house she remarked how much she loved hanging out with the two of us and that she hoped we never moved away so that she wouldn't have to give that up. That was really nice to hear, especially since she is primarily W's friend and I know she's aware of at least some of what's going between W and I if not the whole story.
H: 43 W: 37 M: 11 years T: 12 years S: 11 D: 8 ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14 MC started: 9/22/14 Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14 Piecing: 10/20/14
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
