I've been following along with your thread lately. All I can say is hang in there and I'm feeling all your emotions right now. I even set up another appointment with my IC. I know what she is going to say but I need to hear it anyway.
I'm trying to do what others are posting to you because our sitches right now are very similar. So keep posting your thoughts, it is helping others.
Question for you though... Have you found that middle ground yet? I mean, the way you interact with her.
Me-35 Com law-28 S-3 T-6 yrs w/14 mnth bu 1st bu- 2/2012 Rec-4/2013 2nd bu-10/2013 IC-2 yrs(anger issues) MC- 5 mnths-fail OM~1/1/14 OM dumped 6/4/14 New OM ~10/4/14
No, 2TH - I can't say that I have found the middle ground with communication just yet. To be honest, I think I am just working my way through the anger and "wtf" stage here recently so I know a change in communication style is probably coming. That is NOT to say that I plan on increasing communication....I have, indeed, gone dark and do not really respond unless I have to and I certainly do not reach out proactively....not anymore. Without really speaking about it, I think she knows where I am with everything. As noted before, I believe I am saying a lot more with silence than I ever really did in writing or other forms of communication.
I am sure that as times moves on I will find the middle ground for interaction....and get better at it. Before OM, it was fairly decent......but I am not there yet.
No, 2TH - I can't say that I have found the middle ground with communication just yet. To be honest, I think I am just working my way through the anger and "wtf" stage here recently so I know a change in communication style is probably coming. That is NOT to say that I plan on increasing communication....I have, indeed, gone dark and do not really respond unless I have to and I certainly do not reach out proactively....not anymore. Without really speaking about it, I think she knows where I am with everything. As noted before, I believe I am saying a lot more with silence than I ever really did in writing or other forms of communication.
I am sure that as times moves on I will find the middle ground for interaction....and get better at it. Before OM, it was fairly decent......but I am not there yet.
Crimson
I hear ya. I'm in the same boat right now. The difference this time for me is that I've lost so much respect for my ex with her choice of om and the crap she was pulling on fb. All the other om were way easier to deal with. I was able to hang out with her and be very very amicable and friendly. This time I'm very disappointed in her so going dark is the best option for me. She's trying to be friendly which makes it hard.
The thing that made things easier for me the first time she got an om(she's seriously had about 5-10 in 2 years!), was I kept telling myself I would take the high road and not go into anger mode. If anything I wanted to prove to her(and myself) that I was a changed person. She eventually came back but I f'd up the piecing process.
Good luck man, I know you will make it to the happy side.
Me-35 Com law-28 S-3 T-6 yrs w/14 mnth bu 1st bu- 2/2012 Rec-4/2013 2nd bu-10/2013 IC-2 yrs(anger issues) MC- 5 mnths-fail OM~1/1/14 OM dumped 6/4/14 New OM ~10/4/14
That's really interesting, 2TH. Maybe I should try to take on your mindset on how you dealt with the first OMs. I think I can get there, I just need to move past the shock I think. I'll tell you though, I envy your ability to deal with them. I think my ego gets wrapped up in it, ya know? I think over time I tried so hard to work on myself (thankfully) and changed that I want her to see things in me and not an OM - not too much unlike yourself. I am aware that is not the best frame of mind to have and I am certainly trying to get beyond it.
I guess I have said a lot on here, too, that I get aggravated that after all of the wreckage she left behind with me and S she now gets to be swept off her feet and happy (though she may not be, who knows?). Again - it is my ego. I know that, and I know she may not be dancing on cloud 9 at the moment.
During the first batch of om, she realized the grass wasnt greener and she saw that I was changed. We reconciled but my piecing was piss poor. She then said we were going back to the same old. Which I disagree with but whatever.
Believe me, my ex was on cloud nine but at the same time very depressed. She's a troubled soul. This time however, is the first time she has said the word love regarding om. She claims it's because he knew her through her first abusive relationship when she was a teenager. I can't compete with that other than we were engaged twice and I'm the father of her child. All I can do right now is bite my tongue a lot, take this crap like a champ and hope she realizes what she's doing. Her family does not agree with a lot of what she's doing which is fueling her more towards distancing herself from any negativity in her life. In other words, she's trying to find people that will enable her destructive behavior.
Also, I was labeled the jealous type, so if I can muster through the crap of om's, I know you can. I always pretended the om's did not exist. Kinda hard this time though.
Me-35 Com law-28 S-3 T-6 yrs w/14 mnth bu 1st bu- 2/2012 Rec-4/2013 2nd bu-10/2013 IC-2 yrs(anger issues) MC- 5 mnths-fail OM~1/1/14 OM dumped 6/4/14 New OM ~10/4/14
I'll tell you, 2TH - be glad that she DID notice your changes and that the grass was not necessarily greener. At a bare minimum, that is representative of SOMETHING...if nothing for than the fact that it is in her to look at things objectively at times despite whatever else may be going on in her universe. When by X moved back in for awhile I got the same "I feel like we are falling back into old habits". At the time, I had changed a lot and I am not so sure she had really done her part of the load yet....we see what we fear. She feared that things were the same and that's what she saw. Maybe it was the same for your X too.
Funny thing is, I never was the jealous type. If X had a million male friends I wouldn't care. Things are just different with this OM because of the situation and well, my ego too. Not flattering, but true. I think your strategy of just putting them out of your mind may be a good one...I should try that.
I picked S up from preschool yesterday after work (yay!). During the drive home I realized that not only does his presence calm me a bit by letting me focus on him - but also, I felt an unexpected surge of pity (not in a harmful way, mind you) for my ex. It his me that she CHOSE to walk away from her time with S that I have....to walk away from him. He is such a joy, such a gift, such a wonderful kid....and she make the choice to miss so much of his life when he was only 18 months old. For the life of me I don't think I could ever do that....make THAT choice unless something was MAJORLY wrong (drugs, violence, infidelity....whatever). The pity and sadness for her kicked in because she is missing out on a lot...and an amazing father/son relationship. And then it hit me....despite OM, despite being away from me - maybe she really ISN'T truly happy like I have been thinking.
I mean, I know she loves our little boy as much as I do. That is undeniable - and no one that I have dated or spent time with has ever truly filled the void of son being gone or made me forget it completely. They have been great distractions - but they just don't erase the fact that I am away from my S. I can't help but think she is impacted in the same way. And, if she is like me, it never gets any easier.
I have been really happy with myself going dark. I have really, really stuck to it and it has nearly been a month....that has never happened before in this whole saga. Pretty major for me.
I am trying to balance that with Mother's Day next Sunday. Struggling with that one a bit. Don't get me wrong, I am not going to get her anything from me - but just need to figure out what, if anything, to get her from S. If I do NOTHING I think I would feel somewhat bad about myself and the message I am sending my S. If I do something small (card, piece of pottery from a make-it-yourself place) I think I allow him to honor his mother, but it is technically from me and sends the message that I am "OK" with everything....and I am not. Tough call.....and I don't even know if I trust my own heart anymore to make the decision.
I may be the only one who is not in favor of recognizing or celebrating holidays with ex's. However, as a teaching method to little children, and only with the purpose of wanting to instill those caring actions in him........(and Crimson, don't you dare get all out of balance with that term I just used)......I believe it is okay to let him make a homemade Mother's Day card. Let him draw and color pictures on it. Trace his hand and date it. Take a picture of him making the card and enclose it. It will mean more to her than any gift or store bought card. It has his involvement without having too much of "you" in it. He can give it to her without any of your additions to try and make it special, etc. Just keep yourself out of it, other than what I stated above.
Personally, the way I see it, there are no "rules" for the XH continuing some outward show of "whatever" when the calendar dictates it's that time of year again. Keeping it very.....VERY simple, and only to teach your child some things you want to instill in him, should be the ONLY reason. I think you may be surprised at yourself when you discover how you took advantage.....or maybe I should say used the opportunity to make it a family event, which meant including you with her during these times. You can find a way around it that takes you out of the picture. And if youl plan to continue detaching, you will.
You may not be the jealous type of man, Crimson, but your insecurities are just as bad. And based on things you've said about it, I think it sounds a lot like jealousy, but motivated by your personal insecurity when it comes to the R you've had with her. Which made you so needy and clingy you could not even attempt to detach in the past.
You are presently experiencing what a lot of men get when they get the bomb. They are not only blindsided by her wanting out, but with OM as well. It is still just as painful to you as if the bomb just exploded. I think until OM news, you were working as if you were still trying to impress her by your changes enough to reconcile again. You could never get beyond her not approving and acceptance of you enough to make a commitment. Once you are free of that bondage, you will be able to accept it being her loss. It will not plague your life.
Anyway, you can't allow guilt to dictate your actions. Neither do you want to pass down those tendencies to your son. I hope you will get IC to help you find a way to be free. What value is there to anything done out of guilt?
I have to wonder if you have been so hard on yourself to improve, that you have things out of balance? Of course, I've always thought you did! (ha). I just want you to be happy and free from your self inflicted pain. I know she has caused an awful amount of hurt, but you add fuel to the fires of hell by your own thoughts. I am worried you will have a breakdown before seeing your son reach his teens. And you definitely will after he gets into his teens. (jk)
You are a very sensitive guy and maybe that's why all the women like you so much, IDK. If you were my son, I would have probably messed you up just trying to get you to be a little tougher. But that's on me, not you. That's how most of us gals are........we love sensitive men who are tough. .
You have proven you could withstand more than you ever have, or thought you could do. That takes courage and determination. I don't remember another board member getting as much affirmation as you. That should say a lot about what kind of man we believe you to be. As I've said before, you are your own worst enemy. Please be good to yourself, sweetie. Find a good therapist to help you with these issues you have. Once that is cleared up, you will be near perfect! But then, we may not be able to stand ya.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"I picked S up from preschool yesterday after work (yay!). During the drive home I realized that not only does his presence calm me a bit by letting me focus on him - but also, I felt an unexpected surge of pity (not in a harmful way, mind you) for my ex. It his me that she CHOSE to walk away from her time with S that I have....to walk away from him. He is such a joy, such a gift, such a wonderful kid....and she make the choice to miss so much of his life when he was only 18 months old. For the life of me I don't think I could ever do that....make THAT choice unless something was MAJORLY wrong (drugs, violence, infidelity....whatever). The pity and sadness for her kicked in because she is missing out on a lot...and an amazing father/son relationship. And then it hit me....despite OM, despite being away from me - maybe she really ISN'T truly happy like I have been thinking."
We think alike. She even left me when our son was 18 months!! I pity and feel sorry for my ex as well. She says that our s3 is the love of her life, her joy etc. why is it that I spend the vast majority of his waking life with him and she doesn't?!? I also feel compassion which is an easier emotion to deal with. Knowing that my ex is sooo screwed up makes it easier to not take things so personal. If your ex is anything like mine, have compassion and it does make things a bit easier. I was on an anger bandwagon for a couple of days but it's peedering off. I know you're angry too, just use it for something productive. I wrote a very angry song, but the next day I changed the lyrics to something less angry. Point is, release that anger into something cool or productive. Weights? Poetry? Running? Art? Yard work?
Anyway, I'm no expert but thought I'd throw that out there. You have tons of great advice going on here and I appreciate and utilize what's being said.
Me-35 Com law-28 S-3 T-6 yrs w/14 mnth bu 1st bu- 2/2012 Rec-4/2013 2nd bu-10/2013 IC-2 yrs(anger issues) MC- 5 mnths-fail OM~1/1/14 OM dumped 6/4/14 New OM ~10/4/14
Loaded with good stuff as usual, Sandi. Yes. I do think that I got things out of balance. I owned A LOT of stuff (which I needed to, honestly) and I think when you do that for so long and the other person owns little to nothing (that's her right, I can't control it) you really do begin to believe that YOU are the problem...that you alone caused a ton of damage. And then, you try to fix it....and you do. And you hope that is enough to catch the other person's eye -- and it doesn't. You are kind of left owning a lot of stuff still and it makes you question your self esteem and value. I really try to remember what many people have told me so far - at this point, it is not me anymore - it's pretty much her and her issues - whatever they may be..
And yes, I often think that what I am dealing with now (OM) is something that the majority of other folks here have to deal with from day 1. And it has kind of dragged me backwards a bit.....but I am dealing with it - 4 weeks in and I am moving past anger and I still am keeping my distance. But to your point, yeah - it has blown the lid off of my insecurities in a major way. I still am trying to get out of the mindset that this OM has to be better than me in every single way. I know it is not a rational thought......I am working on it.
So I DID take S to make and paint a little plate with his hand prints on it for Mother's Day. Ignoring the fact that it was for her - we really had a lot of fun together - I guess that is what matters most. Whether or not I give it to her remains to be seen.
By the way, she texted me today and asked if I wanted an end table from our old set (she moved last week and I guess maybe she got some new stuff) - I didn't respond. Still sticking to my guns there.
2TH -- 18 months, yeah - seems like we have a pretty fair amount of stuff in common at the moments. I don't know about you, but being a single dad - albeit unwanted - has really created an amazing bind with me and my son. I am thinking about signing up for scuba certification this month. I just have to get the momentum to do it.
I was thinking, Sandi (and others) - I don't necessarily think I am exceedingly sensitive per se. I don't know - maybe I am not the best judge (probably not!). I think this ordeal has just kind of opened me up a lot more than I was before it all happened. I have realized that I am more likely to try to emotionally support and listen to my friends before - and I understand their sadness and struggles a bit more that I ever would have before. To put it concisely, I think I have started listening more than talking and empathizing more than advising (though I do advise if asked). That's pretty new. I guess if that makes me more sensitive, so be it I suppose. I am always a sap about my son - but I'm not a blubbering mess.
So I had a little insight into by background yesterday - figured I would just journal it because it has been churning in my head about how it relates to me and my life. My parents came by yesterday morning while they were out running errands. They came in cheerful and played with S for awhile and then went to grab all of us a bite to eat and bring it back to the house...S and I stayed in and waited. No less than 15 minutes later my mom busts through the door while S and I are playing with trucks on the floor and shouts "That man is a f*cking IDIOT!" and throws a breakfast sandwich on the table. I said "Hey!!" - clearly referencing the language around my son. She says "Don't you start with me either!!". And then proceeds to slam herself down onto the couch and brood - silently. S says "tell her 'idiot' is a bad word, daddy". I let that one go. She relocated to the front porch and eventually my dad came in. He went out on the porch and gave her a breakfast sandwich in a bag and she threw it onto the ground. He came back inside. I guess they had a dust-up about the ATM machine not working properly and that was it. To cut to the chase I tried to explain to my dad that he needs to be aware of his tone and body language because he is a tall, loud-voiced guy like me. He gets it, but says "this is the way I have been my whole life". I told him that I understood but sometimes you have to be more aware of yourself and kind of change a bit.
Why is this relevant? Two reasons.
1.) THAT is the argument dynamic I grew up around and took as "normal". I didn't unroll all of it ti XW, but it DID influence how I approached conflict. And, frankly, it s*cked.
2.) More importantly, my dad always had a "this is how I am and I don't have to change - take me as I am attitude" for as long as I can remember. The notion of CHANGING for the betterment of a relationship or your partner never existed - and it was never, EVER passed along to me. I literally thought that how I was was just that...."me". And if someone had a problem with it, they just had to accept it and recognize that I was still a GOOD person. So can anyone see how that might have been sorta bad in my relationship? Let me refer to my quote during the argument that came the day before BD: "If I am making your life WORSE instead of better then LEAVE!" -- That was 100%, without a doubt my dad in me talking. And I regret ever saying it.
Live and learn. Never again.
To end on a positive note, I went to dinner with a bunch of old friends and S to an awesome restaurant. We were there until 10:30 - we were tired, but worth it. Two of the friends (a husband and wife) were close with me and X - they are still baffled and we had a brief talk about how things are today. They are supportive.
This morning I asked S what he wanted to do today. His response? "I don't know. You're the one with the brain." - true story. At least he thinks highly of me.
Still staying dark. Had a brief urge to text, but it was quickly extinguished.
. 