She left - 4

[gogofo]

I just sent my W the first direct communication, from me, since BD.

It was about our oldest son's preschool graduation ceremony. I told her that it would be nice to go for ice cream after and that it would also be nice if we sat together. I also inquired about what her dinner plans were as I know it would be hard to get the kids at 5:00, clean them up, and feed them all before 6:30. I told her to think about it and I would call her tonight to discuss.

This is the first time I have sent an email or even communicated directly like this with her about something that I want. I figured it was time and that with it being for the graduation of our son it was more about that than me wanting to be with her or forcing an encounter between us. I am giving her notice about how I feel about the graduation so she can think about it herself and we can discuss.

If she feels the need to not want us to sit together, I will be sad but understand that she is not at that point yet. If she does not want to go for ice cream I will understand and know that she will be missing out on a nice treat that I will enjoy with both kids. If she does not want to do dinner before - again I will understand. I will be a little bummed if she does not want to do any of these things, but not devastated and it will not ruin the evening for me. The evening is about our son and that is how I laid it out. If she wants to do these things together, all the better.

There is almost going to be a guaranteed awkwardness as my parents and grandparents will be there and I assume at least her parents will be there too. I have no problem with this and we cannot forever hide all the realities of our situation. I know I am going to act as if, but don't know how anyone else will act.

My mother asked "what shall we do?" and I just simply replied "the same thing you would have done if we were doing great." In other words, act as if.

I am excited for the graduation but know I will be very emotional about it. When we got the invitations I started to cry, even thinking about it gets me weepy. Mostly because I am overwhelmed at how fast he has grown up, excited and sad he is going to kindergarten, and sad that his mom and dad are not in the best of place right now. I know I will shed tears tomorrow during the ceremony, but will do it proudly!

Earlier in the separation I would not have expressed what I wanted so freely. I would have been scared to overwhelm her and I don't think we were at a place for us to even be next to each other out in public. It was easy to write the email though because I want to make it a super fun night for our son and I think it is important that his mom, dad, and other brother are there together.

Don't really think this is pursuing or goes against any of Sandi's rules or DBing techniques. I have thought a lot about what I wanted for his graduation evening and feel good about how I approached it and what I said.

[gogofo]

I have been thinking about my actions and feelings with regards to the email and I realized it is a 180 for me. In the past I would probably relied on my W to decide what to do or at least dictate the evening. My thoughts and feelings on this in the past was that if I didn't have a strong conviction or opinion about what we should do, then I would agree to whatever others wanted to do.

I took this as being gracious and me taking other's opinions into account. Now I see how my actions could show that of not caring and relying on others to plan things and me talking others for granted. I know the W said that when she stopped trying I did not notice or try myself. I think I have a greater understanding of what she meant by this now.

I have been more motivated to plan more things ahead of time. I want to take the kids to the zoo and aquarium over memorial day weekend. I want to invite the W, obviously because I want her there, but also because we used to share this trip together as a family. It would feel weird if she was not there, but then again we are a separated family right now.

I have read in other threads that this really isn't pursuing because the W is being invited. Does this seem correct? Am I not giving my W enough space? I know one of the reasons I would want her to be there is that in my mind it would be another positive step towards reconciliation.

[Wonka]

GoFo,

It is good to see that you're reflecting your past actions and how you can be better in certain areas as a father and husband.

Remember our advice about going dim? Stick with the program. You would not want to inundate W with a lot of invitations. Be sparing with them so that way your W will enjoy these few interactions and think of them in a positive light.

Slow and steady.

[stumps]

In the past I would probably relied on my W to decide what to do or at least dictate the evening. My thoughts and feelings on this in the past was that if I didn't have a strong conviction or opinion about what we should do, then I would agree to whatever others wanted to do.

I took this as being gracious and me taking other's opinions into account.

I used to do the same thing, and W subsequently advised me that it made her think I didn't care. One of my biggest 180s is to simply make plans. For myself, for me and friends, for me and the kids, and--because she is still accepting them--for me and W.

Which leads to...

I have read in other threads that this really isn't pursuing because the W is being invited. Does this seem correct? Am I not giving my W enough space? I know one of the reasons I would want her to be there is that in my mind it would be another positive step towards reconciliation.

I was advised something similar here. I think the idea is to sparingly extend invitations (e.g., I've made plans for ______ and would love for you to come") with the understanding that you will be going no matter what your W's response is. Then proceed accordingly...

[gogofo]

Thanks Wonka and Stumps

Sparingly is what the invitations would be. I have not invited her to anything except to join the kids and I to look at a train next week. I think I am going to plan the memorial day weekend trip and extend an invitation, but nothing else until then.

Right before BD when I had a plan to strengthen our M after a warning from the W, I planned an out of town trip and lined up child care etc. She was impressed and said "you did that?" with pleasant surprise. She even jumped up and booked the hotel when I told her I was going to do it. She was excited and feeling loved.

But when I said it coincided with car repairs and maintenance it made her feel like an after thought and probably made things worse and might have figured into BD. She mentioned before that she hated only going out of town for car maintenance, so I proved her correct in her opinion that I don't listen and will never change. She was in a very emotionally vulnerable state, for good reason, and I think that this incident was one of the nails in the coffin.

[labug]

My H is very like you and some of my frustrations during the old M were about his lack of understanding of my love language. We're still working on it. I want him to make plans for dates all on his own, start to finish because it means he's thinking about ME and what fills my tank.

It's good that you're "getting it", just take care not to use it as a tactic and drop it as things possibly improve in your M. When you do things in her love language you are touching her soul.

It's important.

[gogofo]

It's good that you're "getting it", just take care not to use it as a tactic and drop it as things possibly improve in your M. When you do things in her love language you are touching her soul.

It's important.

I don't plan on dropping this action, but who does. I guess if the goal was to win her back then the likely hood that I would stop would be pretty high. Especially based on my past performance of settling back into the same old me.

This revelation, that I had not planned things in the past, came about naturally. It wasn't a targeted 180, but I basically stumbled upon it when it hit me in the face this week.

In the very beginning, before I started DBing, I thought we just needed to spend more time as a couple. This was correct, but I thought it was the only issue, boy was I wrong.

During this time I started a list of date ideas and it is now at least 26 different ideas. I started the list because I felt I was never creative enough to think of date ideas. This was incorrect. I was smart enough, my trouble was that I would try to think of what to do on Friday afternoon and by this time it was too late and I was too tired and pressured to be creative. Terrible planning on my part. Unfortunately my actions showed my wife that I did not care, and I understand how she would feel this way. I really did love her, but from her point of view I did not love her enough to care about planning time or dates with her.

I plan to add to the list of date ideas. Another thing that I learned from John Gray's books was that one big grand gesture does not equal 10 small gestures. For example a dozens roses is not as good as twelve individual roses at different times. Quantity of actions trumps size of actions.

I know when I got depressed at the during the end of our living together I had stopped dreaming or planning for the future. I had goals of what I thought I wanted in 5 years, but not a plan for the next week, month, year. I was just in a reactionary mode. I know she likes spontaneity, but I couldn't even do that. I was just depressed and hating myself.

I used to plan these things and we used to plan them together in the beginning of our R and M. I am feeling this motivation again and it has come about naturally which makes me feel it could lead to a permanent change. Permanent that is with regular maintenance.

I no longer assume that our marriage can sustain without actively working on it.

[gogofo]

So yesterday went well. I met the W and kids at a restaurant, took oldest out for steamed dumplings, his favorite. Took off in a furry to W's house to do a quick shower and wardrobe change because kids playing in the playground and were filthy.

The graduation ceremony was fairly nice. I was starting to get emotional then our oldest started to wave back and forth at us when they were singing. He was excited and being a ham.

After we talked with my parents and grand parents and my MIL. Then we took the kids for an ice cream cone and took them back to W's house. Played around with them and put them to bed.

W and I had a glass of wine and put kids back down a couple of times. Had some small talk and I put on my shoes and was getting ready to live and then she asked me "So what is the deal with you?"

This started in on another R talk for us. She basically was asking if I was good with the separation and lets head to divorce or what. She was kind of confused that I had not asked her out or shown her any pursuit.

Then she was asking me to answer the question "What [is she] waiting for?" I told her the changes I wanted to make in the R, how I have new skills, etc. She stopped me and asked me again, she wanted to know something specific like there was some magic phrase or action that would sway her feelings. So I turned it around and asked her what a R would look like if it was something worth returning to. She said "do you think I am going to give you a hint or tell you what I need?" So I rephrased and told her that I cannot answer that question for you, but I laid out certain things about the R and M that I want to improve and change. We both agreed that we don't want the old relationship, or at least how it ended. I told her I wish I knew exactly what she was wanting or waiting for because I would do it, but I am not sure she knew exactly what she wanted. She basically agreed.

She acknowledged that I have changed but does not expect them to be permanent. I told her I understand this and explained my understanding about it from her point of view. She is scared that the new "caring" me would be gone if she left. That the changes in me would leave if I got her back. I think it is a fear that things are good right now and if things change with us working on each other then these changes in me might revert back to the same old un-loveable person she left. I understand her fear and said that it would take work on both our parts to keep these changes going. I told her I need encouragement for what I am doing right and feed back for what I am doing wrong.

She thought or assumed that maybe I was good with the separation because I had not asked her on a date or pursued her etc. I told her I was waiting for some sort of sign that she would be open for a date or increased contact. She replied that it did not make sense to her. She said if I was interested in her and wanted to take her on a date I would not wait for a sign from her to take her on a date. I replied that in her scenario I would wait for a sign, with the specific example of the way she looked at me the first night we were around each other. I was waiting for even the slightest action or display of interest. I think we understood each other's points on this.

I told her if she is waiting for me to do something that I have mentally planned things in my head for a while. I keep looking for signs of openness that did not include interactions with our children. Then I flat out asked if she would even be open for a date. She go quiet and thought for about 30 seconds and said "I don't know." I told her I understood this about her and that is why I have been trying to give her the time and space she needed and needs.

This is a long post, sorry. I should just have wrote the last thing she said to me. "Friday, you can take me out Friday. I will try if you will try." So I have a date with my W on Friday.

[labug]

That's good but be really careful.

Your W has the same fear most WAS's have and they usually have them for good reasons as you noted above

I don't plan on dropping this action, but who does. I guess if the goal was to win her back then the likely hood that I would stop would be pretty high. Especially based on my past performance of settling back into the same old me.

My H had the same fear, still does a bit but it's lessening.

You're both being cagey with communication and if you're going to "date" you might want to think about that going forward. You're moving from LBS to piecing couple (maybe) and that requires more openness. Are you ready for that?

Being honest about feelings and not taking things personally is so important to building a new R. How do you propose navigating that?

Those values we talked about before, they enter into this, too.

I don't see her confusion as a bad thing. Your changes confused her enough that she possibly needed to look at you with different eyes. She took that second look.

Just don't scare the squirrel.

[Wonka]

GoFo,

Good interaction with W. This is tough stuff indeed!

Bug has covered some points very well. So I just want to add about the Friday night date.

This is a long post, sorry. I should just have wrote the last thing she said to me. "Friday, you can take me out Friday. I will try if you will try." So I have a date with my W on Friday.

My thought is to slowly romance W and focus on her good qualities. Don't over do this. Perhaps do things that we did way back on our first dates such as commenting on how her hair accentuates her face. Make one or two comments like that to your W. Then go with the flow and adjust accordingly.

Perhaps before you go on a date, read up on the latest news or some joke. Make it more interesting instead of just you and the kids. Or say that 1.3 million Earths could fit the Sun. [It is just me...I like fun factoids like this and makes for an interesting convos!]