You are right on about the detatching. Or lack of. It is necessary. I lived with my X for 4 years after the bomb. Even after we both started dating... It really is possible.
And it is what I was hoping that Barry would take away from Sandi's post that I hijacked to his thread.
Barry,
Forgivness is important. Only you can define it though. For me, I agree with Sandi, it is in a huge sense an act of faith.
However I was hoping you would see how important detatchment is and how not detatched you are.
Detatchment doesn't mean giving up. It means not allowing the thoughts and actions of another define you. It means if you want to clean the house, you clean the house. If you don't, you don't. If either of those things bother her, that is her problem. Not yours. And if she comments, she comments. You are not trying to effect any sort of outcome or reaction, you are simply living your life. Make sense?
Work on Mach's questions...we have all dealt with threads within threads around here...stop trying to control things.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
My wife is talking to me right now. She is saying she wants to move out and saying that I am controlling the situation by staying here and forcing her hand to move out. I'm just validating and asking questions. She's also going into details of my cheating.
I'm confused about what I have to forgive. I cheated on my wife so I thought my wife had to forgive, not me forgive her.
I understand the part about cleaning if I want to. What's confused me is that my wife feels that she's not contributing to the house so if I clean everything, I'm not listening to her and considering her feelings and if I clean nothing, I'm lazy. I'm trying to find a middle ground so I can do what I want while considering my wife's feelings.
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Just while my wife and I are talking, I've listened and validated and she's disregarding what I want (to stay in the house) citing that "what you want does not come into the equation. You lost all rights to say what you want when you [censored] up and caused this problem."
I can't leave the house and my wife is refusing to work toward a middle ground (shared apartment?). Am I supposed to just stand my ground or am I missing something really important here? I am trying to work with my wife and I'm just making her more and more angry. This is going into territory I'm really not familiar with. Any thoughts?
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
"It's as if I'm the one being punished for your indiscretions. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't betray you. I didn't break your trust. I didn't talk to you like you were beneath me..... and yet I'm the one being given the only option to move out. Haven't I suffered enough of your [censored]?"
I get that we're all here because we've not been good to our spouses. I've really messed up, albeit the biggest incidents occurring a year ago, and I feel that my wife is right. My refusal to leave, as just as it is (where do I go? why not stay and work on things?), is pushing my wife further away. Honestly, I don't feel she should have to move out because I cheated on her. I feel that working on our relationship (not now) is more constructive than me moving out and this is my home.
I feel like I'm missing something here. Surely it's not all "stand your ground and make your spouse do the heavy lifting." Is it? I mean, I stuffed up, not her. I'd really like some understanding right now because I do genuinely feel that she is right as to why she can't live with me right now, even if I disagree as to her proposed course of action.
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
You are very literal. The cleaning was simply an example and your answer was that of a person who is clearly not detatched at all.
The leaving the house thing...
Your W is correct in that you made the mistake. However she is the one wanting the separation not you.
And until you consult with a L in regards to your legal rights if this were to go towards divorce, you need to be very careful. In America, abandonment of the marital property (ie, moving out) is a very big deal.
Yes, you W needs to be able to forgive you, and I don't know if she can, but you also need to be able to forgive yourself. That may actually be more important in the long run.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
I am very literal and I know it is a problem. It's probably why LFW suggested Asperger's. I feel I know when I do and don't understand things as well as when I'm not sure and I want to be sure about the things that I understand. The way I see it, if I understand things, I can make more appropriate decisions, act more thoughtfully and so on and so forth. If I don't understand things I risk more problems, most notably, through miscommunication.
I don't understand your point about the cleaning though. My wife has told me that she feels that she isn't contributing to the house because I take on all the jobs. I take that information on board and make my own decision. I get that. If I clean anyway, I'm not listening to my wife. I understand that I'm not detached. Surely I don't just do what I want to though. I thought the point was to be my own person while considering other's feelings. Am I still missing something here?
On a side note, it looks like I'll have to make an appointment with a lawyer on Monday :-( I think if I can find a way to move out and still have the kids half the time without any negative legal repercussions, that'll be the way to go. I get that I have to stay for now because my wife is the one choosing to separate. Detached or not, I do feel she has a point and staying is only going to make things worse.
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Seeing the lawyer could be a lengthy process so is there a way I can handle this with my wife to try and keep the peace while seeking advice? Do I ask her to be patient while seeking advice? Do I not mention I'm seeing a lawyer and if she moves out in the meantime, so be it?
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Rightyo, my wife has gone to sleep and the message I posted from her earlier was the last one she sent. I told her I would follow it up with her tomorrow. I've settled down a bit and I see that she is the one making the decision so she is the one who has to act on it, regardless of my contribution towards her feelings. Her point was that I cheated so why should she move out and I agree with her.
I've drafted up a message that I would like some feedback on. I will have to consult a lawyer before agreeing to move out. I would like some feedback on how I can handle the situation with my wife and the potential time delay that may arise from having to wait to see a lawyer. Here's my message draft:
"W, I feel incredibly conflicted about our situation. I let you down in the worst way possible. I understand why you want me to move out. At the same time, separation and living in different places are your decisions. I understand that you have to do what is right for you. I will not leave you or the kids though. If there is a way we can achieve what we both want (her: me moving out; me: ease the tension, equal time with kids, legally protected) I would like to find a way."
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Seeing the lawyer could be a lengthy process so is there a way I can handle this with my wife to try and keep the peace while seeking advice? Do I ask her to be patient while seeking advice? Do I not mention I'm seeing a lawyer and if she moves out in the meantime, so be it?
Hey Barry, first of all breath.
Most of us go thrue this, once our Spouse says that they want D and all that, they get in the place where Hitler was nice and we caused the war.... We believe its true because we have low self steem, and basically because we want them back we take aaaaalll responsability for this situation.
Even deeper, we think we deserve this..... So they get to the point where they are manipulating and abussing because they feel stronger and in control...at this point all you can do its have compassion and accept that they feel like that, but "you dont deserve" this things ok?
She wants you out of the house....thats her opinion but it doesnt have to be the one you agree with, you dont have to leave the house., even if she doesnt like it.
I am trying to work with my wife and I'm just making her more and more angry. This is going into territory I'm really not familiar with.
Here is the cause of all the problems you are having now....you are trying to work with her... She has told you she wants a D and doesnt work on none of this, stop all that behaviour and focus on yourself, work in what it will make you happier, otherways this is gonna cost you a high emotional price.
Respecting her decission, even if its hard its what you have to work on.
Ok she wants D? Well fine, she has to find her own place and take care of "her decission" by herself, you cant work with her on that unless you want a D, its as simple as that.
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
My statement was confusing....Just a symptom of something I am currently going through. That said, You have left the family twice in the past...Once on a 6 month separation and once by cheating. Now you are faced with the decision once again to leave....So staying would be a 180 from past behaviors.
As for A LOT of the other stuff....It comes down to detaching.
As for the forgiveness.....You just have to live...Just live.
