She left - 3

[gogofo]

Caution, long post below

It seems to be a constant theme to W. If and when W does bring this very issue up again, how about saying:

I am sorry you feel this way. What would that look like to you? Please show me what I can do to earn your trust back.

I really like this response and will commit it to memory. I have thought about responses like this but I thought it may have been seen as a "fix" or pursuit or she may have interpreted it as me minimizing her pain. I would not have used the "what would it look like to you" phrasing and I think this is they key. I need to let her dictate what she needs. I know this but would not have had as clear and concise wording.

Why do you think she doesn't trust you? How can you begin to build that trust?

Why? In the past I had made changes to my behavior that enriched our relationship. Looking back they were reactionary, but genuine. I never did the work or understood what these changes meant to her and her feelings so they never stuck. I think she is scared the changes she see will fade away and we will be back in the same situation.

To build that trust again has already began. I am understanding where her pain comes from and where I have contributed to it, with the limited information she has given me. I plan to keep working on my R skills and learning about myself and making the behaviors permanent. I hope the opportunity comes to use these skill more with the W. We need to have more open and honest communication when we rebuild this trust so we can better understand each other.

I think the more she sees you lovingly interacting with your kids, the better. For most women it's a turn on and would do more good than harm.

This is why I am leaning most towards extending the invite, whether she comes or not.

I think you're so wise to figure out first if a PA is a deal breaker.

If I found out today, about an affair that ended some time ago, I'd probably get over it. A lot would depend on how it ended, OR IF he ended it, versus the OW cutting it off, if there were one

These are my feelings, I know there are certain actions I could possibly work through and forgive. Others may be difficult or impossible. A current ongoing PA would force me to set a boundary. Any thing else would have to be worked on or worked through. I am not going to act all macho and put up a false front that if there was a PA it would be an immediate deal breaker.

As far as details, I would need to know how is started, how long, probably how often, and who broke it off. Maybe some more details about physical acts, but not full disclosure.

I guess I'd have to ask, what if anything does an A change, about your own work?

May I suggest, nothing? You still have your own stuff in your own sandbox.

Don't let a possible/probable A of any nature, deflect from your own needed repair work. That's a lousy combination b/c then you can play the victim and never improve yourself OR your own happiness.

Nothing changes about my work. This is why the book comments will not be brought up, right now it will not change the course of action. If there is/was an A I am forming the opinion that she messed up something good and it will be her loss if I cannot work through it. I hope I can keep this attitude if needed.

Also I do know people who have left their families and not had a OP.

So I'm just reminding you that having both of you working with two small kids is NOT EASY...

but what if it does not get harder than it is now? What if you could make it past this? Imagine that scenario too...or it won't be possible to actualize it.

When BD happened the way it seemed was that we worked each other apart and she was beginning to wander what life would be like with someone loving and appreciating her. It seemed she left to clear her head.

Yes life is not easy, we went through the toughest time of our life.

I was working 60 to 75 hours a week, nights, weekends, when my phone rang I had to answer and it rang almost everyday and never with good news. A normal day would find me work 7 to 4, grab kids, cook dinner for family, W show up around 6 and eat with us. Be family until 8 and I would leave while she put kids down and work until midnight or later. Weekends would get shot to hell to.

She was teaching full time, working on being an accredidation liason for the entire school, serving on three different commities, heading a club, attending different meetings weekly, and being the president of the faculty. Oh and also taking two doctoral classes on outreach.

Oh yeah, we had two kids too, and two dogs.

We worked each other apart and everyone in my family said this when I told them about BD. There is no guessing on what had killed our relationship.

Knowing what you know of your wife's morals & values, isn't the root of the problem - how she got to where that would be justified? Is it all her flawed thinking and selfishness??

See, this is where your hard work comes in...make sense?

This is where my focus has been since second week after BD. I under estimated her pain and realized she would not make herself feel this way on purpose.

I have taken ownership of 90% of the blame in her feelings, which may be too much, but I need to look at myself. She has some things to work on too, but I cannot do that. I took her possibly exagerated WAS feelings and comments she made and turned them to truths and forced myself to look at myself with her descriptions. I basically told myself that I forced her out and what can I do to change these things, if I in fact wanted to change them. I worked on and continue to work on myself from the extremes. I feel no reason to try and downplay my role in all of this. In engineering we call this a "safety factor".

This is where the hard work will come in. If she does in fact want to work towards piecing then the work will be even harder, but I am up for anything.