WAW seems confused

[AnotherStander]

So we discussed financials and I suggested to her it will be nice for her to take a couple of months off maybe during the summer before starting a new possible teaching job in Sept. Her current job is stressful, long hrs, not much pay and sometimes weekend work.
At first she told me she wasn't going to be a stay at home mom

I'm not surprised she reacted that way. Early on I thought that maybe BD was because XW was stressed at work, so I told her to consider quitting her job, that I could support her. Oh wow was that ever the wrong thing to say to a WAS!! To her, her job was her lifeline- it was her income, where all her friends were, etc. It was her escape from the marriage she perceived as an unhappy one. So for me to offer to let her quit her job sounded to her like a super-controlling/ manipulative move on my part. That was something I said about a week after BD before finding DB'ing and believe me, I never made that mistake again!

I think like most of us you are way underestimating just how done your W is. You're still trying to figure out what "thing" you can say or do that will fix things and return your M to "normal". There is no magic bullet. She is done, and no matter what you say or do you've got a long, long road ahead of you with an uncertain outcome. I think you're putting too much pressure on her with the foot rubs, talk of vacations, offer to let her quit her job, etc.

I believe is really hard for me to DB when she is angry and bitter most of the time.

Then you misunderstand DB'ing, because DB'ing is all about detaching to the point that no matter how angry and bitter she is YOU are HAPPY. I've put it this way to others:

Attached: W happy, you happy. W angry, you angry. W sad, you sad.
Detached: W happy, you happy. W angry, you happy. W sad, you happy.

If I go see my child at her school and she finds out, she resents that I saw her while she is working. I feel this may be because she feels she is in the situation she is in now because of me.

Yes you are right on both counts. She resents everything you do right now no matter how good it may be. That's what WAS's do. You can't win. That's why we tell you to do these things for YOU, not for her. She will say things like "why didn't you change before it was too late? Why did you have to wait until I was done?" It makes her angry. If you do it for her she will continue to be angry and you will get discouraged. If you do it for you then what she thinks won't matter and eventually she'll respect you for being true to YOU, for making yourself a better person not for her, but because it's the right thing to do. And THEN she might look back.

She did say she hopes we can be friends (specially because of the kids)

They all say that, but none of them lift a finger to make it happen. They're harboring too much resentment. It takes a long time for them to get over it.

Any ideas on how to deal with a bitter spouse?

Yes, detach and leave her to work it out herself.

[sandi2]

Her primary LL is QT and her secondary LL is PT.
Being that QT is the primary, it is hard to fulfill while S. Now, PT through the massages she lets me do seem to allow for some calm conversation, which I guess accounts for QT, right? I gotta say that sometimes she is quiet while I am massaging her.

I'm going to be very candid with you. The LL book is an eye opener for most of us, and works well in a M that is not already headed for a D. But when you have a WAW........and separated, I believe a lot of those LL suggested could be very pursuing in her eyes. B/c it goes along with what Another Stander said about how a LBH can't seem to win with a WAW. Not only can you do nothing right to win her approval.......but she does NOT want any form of love in any language, whatsoever, from her LBH. One thing that can really backfire is when a man doesn't know how to validate or use the LL correctly.......and she sees it as you kissing up. It really is a turn-off!

I don't how I missed you were S, when I sent my last post, but I did. Therefore, you have to be even more cautious about showing any PT. I would not offer to hug her at all, unless she makes the move first. Start with just a light pat on her back when you or she starts to leave. See how she receives it.

One thing H's need to understand is those things she wanted you to in past years........is not what she wants to see now. So, do what you need to do to improve as a man, but don't do it simply b/c she once wanted it. She will tell you it is too late.

[whytry]

ManHope I am in the same boat. My spouse used to want to touch now they don't even want within arms reach. Really frustrating since that is all they used to beg for when I was in lala land. Now all I want is PT and affection! I even angered my spouse by making coffee and putting clean coffee cup for them when I left for work. Are you kidding me? That seemed so over the top. Keep the faith though because if you read my story it's odd to the extreme but Sandi2, MrBond, JOB, and MileHigh all seem to know what's going on even if we don't.

[ManHope]

Sandi,

Hugs, holding her hand, padding her belly, touching her face are all things I have tried in the past few months which got me a negative grin on her face. So I stopped all those.

1.5 months ago I started to try with pats in the back as well as lightly touching her waist/hip when asking misc questions (about what food to get or so) and I never got a negative response there. So I continue to do those as they are becoming almost "routine" to my dealing with her.

The massages I just started a couple of weeks ago. I can tell you that the last time I did it she was on her phone on social media off an on and was even asking me if I felt the swelling of her feet. She did not pull back at all. All times I had to stop (since she would never tell me to stop). Now, I though to add a twist to this and don't pursue this for a few days (don't want her to think I am getting too comfortable) thoughts?

[sandi2]

I see a lot of H's say similar things about the WAW not pulling back or rejecting when he would touch her. Just as to inform men, in case they don't know (and I feel a lot apparently don't)............when/if your W doesn't say or do something negative toward a non-sexual touch, you should not assume it is okay with her. Many women tolerate a touch, rather than making a big deal over it. But that doesn't mean she wanted it.

Now to me, massaging her hurting feet may be more welcomed simpy b/c of not finding too many who will do the job. . It also seems to have a calming/relaxing effect and possibly give opportunity to chatting (but not R). I can see this being a door to her being more comfortable around you and perhaps not as defensive. She may feel this is "safe" as opposed to you trying to touch elsewhere. Make sense?

[ManHope]

Thanks Sandi.

She does get upset if I touch her stomach or try and hug her so I try not to go there but I sometimes cannot resist. I could go a couple of weeks without hugging her then I may steal a hug because its hard to resist.

It is tough, for sure. I know I should work more on overcoming that.

So as an update to the D, there is no date in sight yet. She postponed pursuing filing. She told me a few weeks back that she feels she is not prepared financially for it yet but to don't get my hopes up because it will eventually happen anyways.

[ManHope]

Again about body touch.
So far I have been getting closer through massaging her.
Last week I gave her a full body massage for 1.5 hrs!!!
She did warn me if I got to close to certain areas so I respected boundaries. I treated her like a gentleman and this allowed me to repeat this a few days later (Event though its killing me inside not having reciprocation) but its ok. I cherish this as before I would see it almost impossible to be next to her for longer than 5 minutes.

She has been communicating more, being nicer as well.

Still separated but I am glad she allows me to do this for her.

[MrBond]

"Still separated but I am glad she allows me to do this for her."

Stop doing this. You are supposed to get to the point where she doesn't "allow" you to do it. You're acting like a dog looking for her to throw you a bone.

[ye21]

Agree with MRBond, you seem like a weak in her eyes at this point and very dependent, you are basically enjoying being with her just eating bread crumbs....how is that helping the relationship?

[ManHope]

Since I started doing this, the following has been happening:

- She communicates more about random stuff, her day, etc... as she gets home from work.
- She is friendlier around me.

Arent we supposed to do more of what works? I see this seems to work to open her up and make her feel I am not a threat (as I don't ask for anything in return).