I told W on weekend that I thought it would be a good idea to set up a joint account for expenses. . . .
Zew,
Try to begin using the phrase "I have decided that ________." It's leading, it's strong, and it's more decisive.
As for the "why haven't you come to me for sex?" you could always say "To be honest, with how you've been behaving lately, I'm not really attracted to you," but I suppose that wouldn't be good DBing.
Probably better to say "That's a complicated answer, but try not to worry too much about what's in my head. I'll be just find no matter how this turns out," or some such.
so, "I hear that you want to simply be added to my account, but considering where the marriage has been headed lately, I don't think that works for me (also another very good phrase, btw -- "that doesn't work for me" . . . )
"I do think it's wise that we be fully transparent and accountable to each other on all joint family expenses, so I have decided to open up a joint account for this. We can add up the family's monthly expenses, and then each contribute to this account proportionally, based on our incomes. I understand that your commissions are just starting, so we can figure out a way to do this that's fair. Maybe we got '90/10' for now and then adjust it quarterly or something, based on where your quarterly income ends up. We would each have full access to this account, and full accountability to each other on making sure the kids' needs and reasonable wants are being taken care of."
If she argues with you, use the "well, that doesn't work for me," and end the conversation. Try one more time in a day or two and then just go ahead and set it up. Frankly, it's what a mediator (and a judge) is going to require anyway, most likely.
Make sure you err on the side of being overly generous (but stopping short of paying for her new iPad, or her cellphone, or ANYTHING that she would use to possibly carry on her affair). You should continue to pay for her health insurance, auto insurance, reasonable monthly needs (personal drug store expenses, small "allowance" that is sufficient but doesn't give her enough to go blow it on legal fees or OM). Something that ANY fair-minded observer would agree is a MORE-than-reasonable plan, but that begins to restrict her irresponsible financial behavior.
No family court judge is going to make you pay for her reckless credit card debt. They ARE probably going to make you continue to pay for her "lifestyle to which she is accustomed," if this should even all come to that, and therein lies the rub. Me, I put everything in writing to my wife to make sure it would come across as fair to any 3rd party who read it, and to make sure I threw in a "of course i will comply with any legal requirement if it ever comes to that, but for now I think this is more than fair."
If she continues to push the issue of not being added to your already existing account, I don"t think I would have a problem telling her, "My first obligation is to protect my family, and I have to consider your financial track record". If she asks what is that suppose to mean, I would give her a long look and then say something like, "I am trying to work with you on this, but frankly, you have given me reason not to feel very safe".
She knows you are talking about all the debt and other trouble she has had with money. But she may goad you into a fight, so be careful.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
If she continues to push the issue of not being added to your already existing account, I don"t think I would have a problem telling her, "My first obligation is to protect my family, and I have to consider your financial track record". If she asks what is that suppose to mean, I would give her a long look and then say something like, "I am trying to work with you on this, but frankly, you have given me reason not to feel very safe".
She knows you are talking about all the debt and other trouble she has had with money. But she may goad you into a fight, so be careful.
OK, so could this be committed to hardcopy, that will be reviewed by W, T, OM, L, bff, etc. etc?
I think it's wise that we be fully transparent and accountable to each other on all joint family expenses, so I have decided to open up a joint account for this. We would each have full access to this account, and full accountability to each other on making sure the kids' needs and reasonable wants are being taken care of. We can add up the family's monthly expenses, and then each contribute to this account proportionally, based on our incomes.
For example if I make $10K per month and you make $5K, and expenses are $6K, I will contribute $4K and you will contribute $2K. I understand that your commissions are just starting, so we can figure out a way to do this that's fair. We'll start at 100%/0% for now and true it up at the end of each quarter, based on our actual earnings for the quarter. Any money owed to or from the account to either of us would be paid at that time. You can figure out your quarterly tax installment at the same time. The contribution ratio should be based on gross income less any 401K/IRA contributions.
Things that should be charged to this account include: groceries, common household items, kids' clothing, kids' school needs, team memberships, mortgage, health/car/home/life insurance, utilities, real estate and vehicle taxes, household repair, family dining, basic toiletries.
Things that should not be charged to this account include: any electronics/phones not for the kids, dining without the kids, clothing for adults, alcohol, professional fees, subscriptions, or personal items such as haircuts, manicures, pedicures, etc. or anything related to other businesses. We should not buy gas out of the joint account since you will have to track that as a business related expense.
This joint account is not be used for cash withdrawals, nor is cash-back allowed on any purchases. All purchases should have receipts that we immediately put in a box for later review. Other than recurring bills, any purchase over $200 should be agreed upon by the other person. Other exceptions can be agreed upon on a case by case basis.
We will each continue to maintain our our personal accounts, and will pay our personal credit cards from those.
If either of us has a monthly income less than $750, the other will transfer money to the other's personal account to bring their income up to the $750 level. This will be trued up quarterly.
Of course I will comply with any legal requirement if it ever comes to that, but for now I think this is more than fair.
and then these can be verbally added as required:
Considering where our marriage seems to be headed, this is all financial documentation and transparency any mediator or judge is going to require anyway.
"My first obligation is to protect my family, and I have to consider your financial track record". If she asks what is that supposed to mean, I would give her a long look and then say something like, "I am trying to work with you on this, but frankly, you have given me reason not to feel very safe".
The SUV payment... Title is in my name, I made all the payments, she's the only driver. I suppose since any equity is already jointly owned, she may as well be paying into that equity, so SUV payment goes to joint account.
And no R talk at all. And no sticking the A in her face, or any other judgment. Purely a calm financial discussion that's in line with what most dual income families do. Deliver the message, listen to the feedback, then walk away.
Ok, she has no income right now, that will kick in within say 3 months, so it will go away soon. Was advised by L not to cut things off, because of the whole "lifestyle to which she is accustomed" thing. I have been trying to pick a number for a while now. I kind of backed into it by looking at what I pay on her card now, subtracting what would be joint expenses, and then cutting that some.
You'd just be left with paying $750 on her card, for her to continue to blow on all of the things you just delineated above that you are no longer going to pay for.
Actually, yes that should be reworded to put $750 on her card instead of into her account - at least then she wouldn't have cash and the spending would stay visible.
I wonder if this whole thing shouldn't stay verbal. If I put it on paper, it's begging her to take it to L.
