If you want to use a joint credit card for family expenses, due to the cash-back feature, I guess you could do that. Both debit and credit cards generate billing detail (transparency), but I suppose you could do this. But under no circumstances should you pay HER credit card(s). If she's putting all of the her day-to-day needs (haircuts, gas, OTC drugs, etc.) and the kids' needs (and reasonable wants) on the joint credit card, and you are both making contributions into the joint account based on the proportions of each of your incomes . . . then there's no reason for you to pay HER cc's, for her to spend on secret affair phones, drinks with OM or her own enabling BFFs, etc.
No, it's a stipulation that "all family expenses are to be paid for with the debit card." NO CASH ATM WITHDRAWALs.
You can even say "Look, considering where our marriage seems to be headed, this is all financial documentation and transparency that any judge is going to need anyway, so we might as well start getting on the system now. And I'll be the first to admit, the way we've always done it it screwed up."
very good. This would be the first time we talked about impending D. Might be an eye opener.
There were three things in my own sitch that probably provided 90% of the "jolt" to my wife's affair fantasy (OK, so me filing for DIVORCE probably ultimately did that, but I'm talking before that):
1. Losing my friendship. She told me when we reconciled that it was this more than anything that she missed. I had told her very plainly when she was in the throes of her affair, that "Make no mistake -- if you end our marriage this way, by having an affair and running away from it, without trying to work at our problems, then I will NOT be your friend. We will be civil, and co-parent effectively, but I will never be your friend if you continue on this path. If, however, you end your affair and come back to the marriage, and we try to make it work and it doesn't work say after 12 months of trying, including good MCing . . . then yes, I could see where we would remain friends, even in divorce.
2. The disapproval of our family, especially her mom and our then-18 year old daughter.
3. The financial reality that I set up and allowed her to feel.
If she wanted out, she had to put on her BGPs and get out. I couldn't stop her from fleeing, but I damned sure didn't have to finance the flight.
There were three things in my own sitch that probably provided 90% of the "jolt" to my wife's affair fantasy (OK, so me filing for DIVORCE probably ultimately did that, but I'm talking before that):
1. Losing my friendship. She told me when we reconciled that it was this more than anything that she missed. I had told her very plainly when she was in the throes of her affair, that "Make no mistake -- if you end our marriage this way, by having an affair and running away from it, without trying to work at our problems, then I will NOT be your friend. We will be civil, and co-parent effectively, but I will never be your friend if you continue on this path. If, however, you end your affair and come back to the marriage, and we try to make it work and it doesn't work say after 12 months of trying, including good MCing . . . then yes, I could see where we would remain friends, even in divorce.
2. The disapproval of our family, especially her mom and our then-18 year old daughter.
3. The financial reality that I set up and allowed her to feel.
If she wanted out, she had to put on her BGPs and get out. I couldn't stop her from fleeing, but I damned sure didn't have to finance the flight.
Starsky
I think it's important to point here that this ^^^^^ -- the "jolt" thing -- was the STICK.
The CARROT -- which is the other, key half of this -- was my self-improvements, working at those pre-affair marital complaints that she had that "stung," that I knew were really things I needed to work on to become a better man and husband.
BOTH were needed, in my opinion. All "stick" and no "carrot" and I'm just a controlling, vindictive a-hole. All "carrot" and no "stick" and you quickly can become an enabler to the path she's on.
Zew, I've been reading your thread and I think you're getting some great advice. If your W is having an Affair, then you need evidence to confront her. For me, a PA was a deal-breaker. When I found out my W crossed that line on a one-night stand with somebody that she had only met a day earlier, I told her she had to leave the house. Not the bed, the house.
Your message to a WAW or a MLC has to be like you're talking to a kid. you could say,
"W I know you're having an affair. It is disrespectful of me and our marriage. I want you to either stop the affair, or move out."
Then give her conditions on what stopping an affair means: no contact, transparency, etc.
Unless you have evidence, the WAW will continue to deny the affair.
Otherwise, continue to DB, do 180s, be unpredictable, and make her think that you are willing to end this. My W actually was concerned that I no longer wanted to be married.
So I mentioned to W this morning that I wanted to set up a joint account with her for all our household expenses.
She said there was no point in setting up a new account. (She still wants access to my account.)
I simply replied that a joint account will be helpful, and we can discuss the details later. I left it at that and left the room.
She's off to work now, so she can stew on that for the day.
Meanwhile S8 is S9 today. W baked his favorite cake and we'll all go out to dinner tonight. D12 is jealous of his gifts, so we're having a little F/D time.
And then open up a separate account, in your name only, and don't tell her. Have your paycheck DD'd into THAT account, and then automatically transfer whatever amount is needed for your contribution to the now-joint, shared family expenses account.
open up a separate account, in your name only, and don't tell her.
Na, that can't work. We're going to need full transparency on all income to do quarterly true-ups because of her irregular pay.
Plus, I can't start this new plan with inherent deception, can I. You're shocking me here, Starsky.
I'll tell her that a new joint account is what I can do for now, and that over time, when we get to a better place, we can reconsider combining everything.
Wait a minute. Don't get confused over who is in which roll. She is the one who has to prove herself. If she was a drug addict who would sell her grandmother to get her next fix, would you feel like you had to reveal a separate account then? Well you better think of this situation in close comparison. Someone has to be the responsible guardian and protector over the family.
She cannot be trusted with knowledge of the total funds, and frankly, I think you would be taking a terrible risk by not having a private/separate account as protection.
The transparency is for the unfaithful/irresponsible/untrustworthy spouse to have opportunity to give accountability that they have changed are staying on the straight & narrow road.
Don't misunderstand the intent here. You are getting confused over 180's and showing her good faith? I see LBH'S do that quite often on the board. But the burden of good faith is on her. You do have to be in a parental role much of the time when you have a wayward wife. She is just as rebellious as any teenager could be, and you best not forget it. And until your M is healthy.....DO NOT start acting like you have to prove that you can trust her, while she is clearly untrustworthy. That's crazy! She would not honor your trust by making sure she did not violate it. A WAW in an A simply does not care, b/c she's going to do whatever she feels like doing.
She must be the one to prove she can be trusted by her H. And until she does.......don't do it.
Don't make this an issue of deception on your part. It is PROTECTION!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Let's be clear on the proposal. I will keep my private account private. I am proposing that we each contribute from our private funds to a joint account to cover family expenses, the joint account having full transparency.
Now, if we are to contribute to that joint account proportionally on the basis of earnings, she would have to know earnings. That can come from a pay stub. She already knows that anyway because of the budget. But to be clear, no way does she ever get access to my primary private account. That's ages away.
Anything that isn't a legitimate family expense, she would have to pay for from her private account, not from the joint account, and not from me.
And if transfer my portion of the money into that account only as I am about to pay a bill, the balance, and the risk for abuse is relatively small. Basically, I would only be keeping enough in there to cover the weekly grocery bill.
At some point, she has to understand financial reality. And yes, I understand she is the equivalent of a teenage addict. I have no reason to expect much here. But I have to change this whole CC situation. That card of hers is about to peg and she should be contributing if she is earning.
Perhaps I should just wait for that card to blow up. Then it won't be me forcing the issue, but the fact that she tries to buy something and the card doesn't work. That lets me off the hook. And if she has a paycheck, she can pay down her card until it starts working. I won't have the transparency, and she won't learn finance. Oh well.
I already know that she will view the idea as me trying to get my hands on her newly earned paycheck. She will see the transparency on her spending as me trying to micromanage her, yet again.
Maybe I'll just take the month of April off to GAL.
