Starting a new thread as the old one, The Breakfast Club, is in danger of being locked as it is up to 108 posts.
Sounds a lot like us here, eh?!
Post-collegiate angst, '80s style, is the subject of this coming-of-age ensemble piece, which traces the fortunes of a group of Georgetown grads as they enter the real world and grapple with work, infidelity, and adulthood. The most outwardly upscale member of the gang, Jules (Demi Moore), hides a plethora of emotional baggage behind a chic wardrobe, an expensive apartment, a fashionable drug habit, and lots of meaningless casual sex. Her friend Wendy (Mare Winningham) has the opposite problem; a trust-fund baby with body-image issues and little sexual experience, she's hung up on Billy (Rob Lowe), a no-good, sax-playing drunkard who can't face up to his responsibilities in the job market or at home with his wife and young child. Such open infidelity is anathema to Alex (Judd Nelson), who must maintain a sense of propriety even while engaging in compulsive womanizing; after all, the Democrat-turned-Republican's nascent political career requires the sort of picture-perfect relationship he shares with girlfriend Leslie (Ally Sheedy). That doesn't sit too well with tortured writer Kevin (Andrew McCarthy), who toils away at a newspaper job and pines away for the unattainable Leslie. Unrequited love also dogs Kirby (Emilio Estevez), a law-school student whose greatest wish is to romance classy doctor Dale Biberman (Andie MacDowell), who is, alas, way out of his league.
Continuing on the previous thread's discussion about making amends.
Barb,
Hi Wonka,
I think it is great that you & Ms Wonka have reached a place where you can communicate peacefully. I think she has moved on, accepted your apology and has out the past in the past. But I wonder if you have not forgiven yourself. Maybe that is why you feels "stuck". Do you somehow still feel hope for a reconnection with her? Does improved communication give you some glimmer of hope? I'm not reading that at all in her communication. I think she is trying to help you reach a place of forgiveness & also move on.
As for Chuck - I gave up on any hope of meaningful communication with him even with respect to our kids. He texted in January "how is Ryan?" I replied " he is doing great - best winter ever". Took him 2 months to text "Ryan still ok?" - what? Like he couldn't have been ill 5 times since he last asked? Yep - some good & caring parenting going on there. He has virtually ignored the other 2 - who have learned to count on him for zero.
I'm not as familiar with your situation. Have you considered dating? Do you have any post split new hobbies or activities? Just curious as "moving on" entails a lot of different aspects in your life.
Barb
What I'd like to see happening between Ms. Wonka and I reconnecting as friends. We were really good friends and I miss that friendship. As for making amends, I am really sincere in making that with Ms. Wonka...but don't know how or what. That is my real conundrum at the moment.
I have dated since Ms. Wonka. Right now, I'm dating a hot girl named Cass. As for hobbies, I'm mad, mad about playing golf that I took up after Ms. Wonka left and try to do so when the weather permits. Prior to that, I played softball. I have a good social life and have very close friends who went to college with me. So I am good in that area.
Yes, you are correct that I sense that Ms. Wonka feels she's healed so that's good to see. So my focus is now squarely on the making amends aspect. Then go from there.
Bug,
In speaking with your inner child, have you discussed the possibility that you weren't quite ready to make amends or that there might have been other forces or expectations at work?
I think the Inner Child isn't ready to be vulnerable and talk about these topics without Ms. Wonka going first. I think Ms. Wonka has discussed a bit about her process of healing, but hasn't given me some clear directions on what she'd like from me in regard to making amends. As I mentioned earlier, the Inner Child is very much dug in on having Ms. Wonka go first. I am still working through this part and having the Inner Child come out to the other side feeling comfortable with "sharing" thoughts about making amends.
In regard to the healing, I have worked very, VERY hard at it in the first 5 years after Ms. Wonka left which entailed not dating for a while as I felt needy at that time and knew I'd slip on the slippery slope. I feel very comfortable with that process. When I felt that I had something to offer, it told me that I was ready to date again and I did in 2009.
To me, I would feel that the circle has come to a complete circle if Ms. Wonka would tell me what she'd like to see in regard to making amends to her. I guess I just want the opportunity to close that loop as Bets alluded in her previous post. Bets,
I'll come around to your questions in the next post.
Reconnecting as friends. I miss her friendship. Are you really okay with just "healing" (which can be done without engaging Ms. Wonka) or are you looking for something altogether different? She's said she's forgiven you and desires to live in the present, so I'm wondering what you really and truly want from communications.
I've touched on the healing part in earlier post. What I am seeking is making sincere, thoughtful amends with Ms. Wonka for causing her untold pain during my MLC chit. That is something I feel is appropriate when someone does a wrong to another and making things right. In a way, I am attempting to make reparations...if you will. I now recognize what the antsy feeling is now...really wanting to close that loop so the both of us can feel "free" and "unchained" in going forward.
And said, "You don't think we're not friends now?" I said, "yes, I do. I will always consider you my friend. But losing the friends plus intimate benefits felt like cutting my heart out." All he could say was, "Hmmm." Then he piped up to say, "I really want to be in the present with you, and as far as I go, I'd like to keep the past in the past and just keep moving forward. Are you okay with that?" I said, "Yep. I am."
As I read this, I couldn't help but wonder if Mr. W was trying to avoid saying "sorry" for causing you pain and coming up with that comment. Maybe Mr. W really didn't want to face up or own up to his part in this mess. Sounds like he's brushing this away with the flick of his hand. Right or wrong? I don't want to be like that with Ms. Wonka. Ya know?
But, I'm thinking you want to ask her for that entrance back in? Otherwise, healing a relationship to get back to being friends isn't so scary, and doesn't require that kind of vulnerability you need when in an intimate relationship?
In a roundabout way, yes. I am being extremely sensitive to Ms. Wonka and respecting her space. I think this type of friendship is different in that we were in an intimate relationship for a long time so it has an added layer that I do not have with my old college friends. If I hurt a friend, I'd call them up and talk it over. Then we'd be fine. However, when this comes to Ms. Wonka, it is straying into a very sensitive territory and that last thing I want is to dredge up negative emotions with her. Yet, I do SEE Ms. Wonka is opening herself up for a dialogue with me which means she's ready for this instead of slamming the door to me.
So... what does making amends mean to you
Closing that door and moving forward as untethered at the emotional level. Yes, it pains me to see that I've hurt her tremendously and the sensitive part of me, with the empathy chip back in full working order, wishes to aid Ms. Wonka. Because I still hear her words ringing inside my head to this day: I've never had a closure. In other words, I'd like to make amends to provide CLOSURE for the both of us.
Has Ms. Wonka said that you need to do/say/show something in order for you to make amends? Or is this something *you* feel you need to do above and beyond showing remorse?
She did not explicatly state that it was a requirement of hers. However, she say she's open to whatever specific amends I had for her. No guidance, clue, or directions on how it'd look like to her. This is where I am positively stumped. In a way, I do feel the need to do this in order to provide us the closure and closing out the loop as you said.
From what you've told us, she's accepted your apology. So wondering if Little Wonka is rearing her head and some childhood notion that you need to make better than that to make amends to her?
Not really. It is the adult me that is attempting to make amends here. My Inner Child is now starting to listen to me and is very slowly relaxing to the idea of forging ahead with a response to Ms. Wonka's latest email. Still feeling a bit vulnerable with the notion of going "first." It is slow going, but I am patient with the Inner Child.
If she said (again?) that she didn't have anything specific that she wanted you to do, would you be open to hearing and accepting that?
Maybe your insistence that she has to come up with something for you to do in order for you to let yourself off the hook...which she has already left in the past and is fine moving forward from...is creating a problem where there is none.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I'm glad that all our questions got you to think things through. That was the whole point of the exercise. As long as you have clarity and intent, forge ahead, friend.
For the record, Mr. Wonderful has already apologized long ago, and I've forgiven him. It's all good. But every once in awhile, it's good to make sure that our intent is to stay friends. I can't speak for him, but it does make me feel better.
For the record, I've had a difficult time being the one to go first. It's something I'm trying to do better as I go. When I was in my 20s, my BFF and I had a falling out (neither one of us can remember what that was about now, go figure). We had been bosom buddies from the time we were 12 until then, and our rift caused so much pain for our families. In January 1988, a mutual friend of ours got married, and we avoided each other like the plague. Her dad dragged her over to me and said, "Betsey, I'd like to introduce you to my daughter, J. J, please meet my friend, Betsey. I think you have a lot in common and you might want to get to know one another." Ugh. We danced around and exchanged pleasantries and left without talking. I moved to CA in March. The night before I moved, the phone rang and it was J. She was bawling and I was too. She told me through choked tears, "You were the best friend I ever had, and I don't want you to move without telling you that." We erased the slate from that point forward. She was my maid of honor and is also D20's godmother, and I talk to her 3-5X per week.
I tell you this because SHE cleaned the slate, but I knew our rift was my doing. AND our reconnection was HER doing. The following year, I made her a photo album of all the things we shared and sent her a heartfelt letter telling her how much it meant to me that she was the one with balls and a forgiving heart, and that I'd always love her. Every once in awhile, I have to tell her out loud again - just to make sure that she knows she's been the best friend I ever had. Ya know? There is something so uniquely human to be shown mercy, so I get this, Wonka. I really do.
For whatever reason, I've been having really intimate discussions with people lately. Is there something in the water????
Go forth and be merciful and ask for mercy in return. It's a good thing!
Bets
p.s. This weekend is the I Can Do It! workshop here. I thank YOU a thousand times over for passing that info along! It's my early birthday present to me, and I hope I walk out Sunday night feeling energized to start 52 off with a bang. xxxooo
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Bets, I have done that too! Really talked a lot of stuff out the past two weeks. Probably good that my boss was gone because a couple of those conversations were long!
I believe people are put in our paths for a reason, so you must have needed to address some stuff. I know I did.
Kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I cannot wait for you and GM to come by here and give us a blow-by-blow account of the I Can Do It! conference. It'll be a wonderful, fun experience for you guys!
I sure wish GM was coming with us! But it's Golf Girl who is going as well. Thanks for the reminder, 'cause I just texted her. I'll definitely fill you in. It's going to be a really busy weekend. I still have laundry to do, and when I'm home, I need to work on my dream board. Sunday is the new moon in my sign, so I want to get that completely done so my intentions are clear and there for me to see. I spent a chunk of time yesterday cutting stuff out for it, so it's a matter of laying it out to the Bagua. Maybe I'll head home after lunch...
In the meantime, I'll try to get everything done so I can contemplate leaving early. A little Beyonce blaring is helping the cause.
So hope everyone has a good weekend. BA, thinking of you, buddy.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Just learned that Ex's uncle passed away. I liked him & he & his wife had stayed in touch with me since the D - Christmas cards etc yet never stayed in touch with ex. Anyway... The interesting thing is that he has exactly the same name as ex - Chuck K. And his wife's name is the same as mine - Barb K. People always got us confused. I got calls for them for the dentist - we used the same pharmacy, bank etc. I was worried that my kids might get upset as people would contact them, thinking their dad had passed. They know nothing of his side of the family. I sent ex a message, passing on my condolences & did the same with the family (I had gone to school with Ex's cousins). He replied appropriately. Weird how no matter how much time, distance & divorce comes between us - we are forever connected.
Prior to that, I played softball. I have a good social life and have very close friends who went to college with me. So I am good in that area. 