You are doing the same here, you are invalidating your W feelings and that will always drive her to " defensive mood" this is were you have to start using your first 180....validate doesnt mean agree, it means only listening and underestand the way they feel without giving advice or suggestions, if I want to be a firefighter I will because thats what I want, not because you tell me that its the best job for me.
I happen to agree with most of this here ^^^, but it's also why I don't buy into the whole "Validation-at-all-Costs" movement. If, by what he stated, djh was speaking the truth, and they were not only real issues with him but they were, in fact, DEALBREAKERS -- his "N.U.T.S." as the book of that name calls the non-negotiable, unalterable terms -- then I think he is drawing a boundary of personal integrity.
There's a time for validation, I agree. But sometimes it's pure b.s. to say "I hear you saying that you blame me for all of your issues. How does that feel for you?" Crap behavior is crap behavior, and canceling this trip at the last minute (and frankly, most of her other issues [at least how they're being described to us here]) are crap behavior.
In my opinion.
It comes down to "do you want to try to reconcile or not?" I'm hearing dh say either "No" or "No, at least not at any cost -- some things would have to change." If that's the case, then I see nothing wrong in him conveying those things honestly to his wife. To do less would be dishonest, no?
Going forward, my therapist said I'll probably need to eat some crow over this email, but the next step would be to articulate what exactly I want/need out of the relationship. If she can't or won't meet them, I need to decide whether to move on or not.
I agree Starsky, but as we see here many times, one thing its to set a boundarie and another different one its to send that email....
I encourage people to have boundaries, but I strongly believe that boundaries our for ourselves , and we have to learn how to communicate them...
For me, he was very upset and just exploded all his frustrations on that email, I think if he approached that in a different way it will have a different outcome... For example instead of that email he could had said something like, I would appreciate if you had communicated me this decision earlier, I would have conduct the situation in a different way and wouldn't have to face some ot the problems this has caused me.
That for me will leave room for her not to get defensive and to really think about what she did and if she doesnt want to think about it, I dont think that his email would it make her think about it....sometimes its better to approach a person leaving room to reconsider if they are doing a mistake than to demostrate them that they are doing a mistake....not many people reacts possitively when somebody probe us "wrong"
Thats my humble opinion
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Dude, that email was rough....lots of control, blame, discounting of her feelings, and just plain insulting.
I get that you're pissed...and maybe reasonably so (and I say maybe because I'm not sure we're getting all of the story here). But do you think this got you closer to your goal or put you further away? Do you think she's just going to read this and go "you know, dj is right...that was inconsiderate, and I need to get my crap together"? Or do you think it'll be more along the lines of "yep...still the same asshat"?
I do agree with Starsky that there's nothing wrong with conveying your needs in the relationship, and it sounds like you guys are long overdue in having that discussion....but I think HOW you do it is important too.
In retrospect, a blended approach would have been better. That email was (mostly) emotional venting. I should have let this sit in my draft folder for several days until I cooled down a bit (even though I'm still very disappointed).
She said she spent two sleepless nights dwelling over this, and that she wanted to go, but at the time, these came across as feeble attempts to placate and diffuse the sting of doing this to me at the last minute.
I haven't heard from her since I last texted her on Friday stating I was going alone (which hurts given had I done this, I'd want to at least see if my spouse was having a good time).
I'm 'guessing' she's hurt and/or angry over my email hence no contact.
Next step is to decide if/when/how to initiate contact and what the message will be.
A couple of comments from a female friend still resonate:
"If you keep letting her act in this manner without consequences, why would she ever stop?"
"Don't you deserve better than this?"
"Don't you think it's a bad sign that you can't ask your wife what you are to her and talk openly about your marriage?"
"Does her behavior seem out of character?" [No.]
Me: 46 Ex: 38 Married: 10 Together: 12 No Children Separated (again): 09/06/13 Divorced: 02/27/15
A couple of comments from a female friend still resonate:
. . .
"Does her behavior seem out of character?" [No.]
I should clarify. My advice about whether-or-not to validate is coming ENTIRELY from this ^^^, and djh's response to me upthread about whether or not he even wanted to fix this anymore, and whether he felt this was a woman of quality or not.
If she were acting momentarily WAY out of character for herself (as my own wife was, for instance), my advice about validation would probably change entirely.
Although I'd still recommend the "24-hour Rule," true.
Dude, that email was rough....lots of control, blame, discounting of her feelings, and just plain insulting.
I get that you're pissed...and maybe reasonably so (and I say maybe because I'm not sure we're getting all of the story here). But do you think this got you closer to your goal or put you further away? Do you think she's just going to read this and go "you know, dj is right...that was inconsiderate, and I need to get my crap together"? Or do you think it'll be more along the lines of "yep...still the same asshat"?
I do agree with Starsky that there's nothing wrong with conveying your needs in the relationship, and it sounds like you guys are long overdue in having that discussion....but I think HOW you do it is important too.
Agreed.
Not the best messaging or delivery.
However underneath that, the core truths remain. Imagine a drug-addicted relative that constantly laments his plight in life and makes excuse after excuse for doing nothing about it despite your repeated attempts to help; it just gets old and at some point you have a right to tell that person exactly how you feel.
Me: 46 Ex: 38 Married: 10 Together: 12 No Children Separated (again): 09/06/13 Divorced: 02/27/15
However underneath that, the core truths remain. Imagine a drug-addicted relative that constantly laments his plight in life and makes excuse after excuse for doing nothing about it despite your repeated attempts to help; it just gets old and at some point you have a right to tell that person exactly how you feel.
I agree. And for those of us who know a thing or two about alcoholics, one might fairly add " . . . and to decide to no longer enable their destructive behavior."
However underneath that, the core truths remain. Imagine a drug-addicted relative that constantly laments his plight in life and makes excuse after excuse for doing nothing about it despite your repeated attempts to help; it just gets old and at some point you have a right to tell that person exactly how you feel.
I disagree with a couple of things above. Their life is just that....THEIR LIFE. Regardless of your judgement, or how you think they could make it better, or how you think they are wasting it. It's still THEIR choice.
Did you tell her exactly how you feel? Or did you let your anger and hurt mask your true feelings? I think your msg would have been a lot stronger, and truer, had you been calm in the approach.
What I see is you trying to make your W behave the way you want her to behave....you want her to treat you a certain way, live her life a certain way, make choices that you'd make. That isn't going to happen, and is going to just cycle until you are both miserable. And the communication between you two doesn't seem great on top of it.
Ultimately, what you can, and should do, is take control of YOU. You have to decide what kind of person you want to be....and what kind of person you want to have a relationship with. If your W can't or won't be that person, you have the choice to move on.
Did you read those posts from Pearl that Starsky linked? To me, that was exactly where you should be going....define what you want, draw boundaries, and then act on them.
Crap behavior is crap behavior, and canceling this trip at the last minute (and frankly, most of her other issues [at least how they're being described to us here]) are crap behavior.
