The reality is I do not want a woman like this; hence the 'line in the sand'.
Oh, OK -- I think I misunderstood you.
The best way I've seen people articulate these "lines in the sand," as you call them, was a poster that used to be here called Pearlharbor. You may want to see if you can find some of her old posts (she wasn't married, but rather dealing with a long-term committed boyfriend, and his infidelity). She would take his name off of it, and say things like "The man that I have in my life WILL be faithful to me," and "The man that I have in my life WILL be honest and transparent with me," etc.
Then she'd simply say to him "I'm not trying to control you whatsoever. I'm merely telling you what I've decided *I* intend to have for a man in my life, going forward. Whether or not YOU can be that man is completely up to you."
And then she never wavered from that.
It took 10-12x (or more) for her BF to get it, but once he did, he stopped accusing her of trying to control him and was "all in" on the relationship, as I recall.
And here's the money shot -- the letter she wrote to him. It's classic:
Quote:
xBF,
During these past five months I have looked long and hard at myself and what I want for my life from this point forward. Here are some of the conclusions I have reached:
I want to be with someone who wants to continually strive to be a better person and have a better relationship. I want a man who can and does communicate with me. I want someone who is honest with me and himself.
I deserve to be with someone who will come to me and not turn to another woman when the going gets tough. I want someone who doesn't make excuses about inappropriate contact because there is no such contact at all. Ever.
I need someone who doesn't just say he is willing to do whatever it takes to earn my trust but who makes a plan and follows through with actions that will reassure me. I want a man who goes out of his way to make me feel safe. I want and deserve to be with someone who is willing to crawl through broken glass for me.
I realized that I want and need to be wooed. I want romance, I want fun, I want a man who is thoughtful. I want to feel like the man I am with wants me for me, not just as part of a comfortable life. I want to be with someone who recognizes all I have to offer and who wants to show me why he is the best man for me.
I need to be honest here--I am not sure that is who you are, or the type of man you are. I realized that I didn't feel those things from you or get those things with you before. I will not settle for anything less this time. If "we" can't have that in our relationship, then I am not interested in seeing where this goes because I know I will not be happy. When I love a man I am willing to give him my all, but I am not going to do it with ANY man who can't seem to give those things back. I now know that there are men out there who want to do those things for their women. I just am not sure that is who you are. I don't feel right now that I am willing to give much to you because of those reasons. This is nothing against you for being who you are and I know that you have things you need too, but I just wanted to be honest and not give any false hope here.
^Starsky, et al; thanks. I think I'll work on this tonight. I'm still angry/hurt/bitter over allowing her to ruin my vacation (epic conditions as well). But I think I'm at the point to accept a 'no' from her when I state my needs.
A friend of mine today suggested I send her a bill for her half of the vacation.
Me: 46 Ex: 38 Married: 10 Together: 12 No Children Separated (again): 09/06/13 Divorced: 02/27/15
djhartm, I can't tell you how much research W and I (especially me) had put into our 15 yr anniversary trip (this June), so I feel for you. W actually sent me the email BD the same day I sent her a new rental I had found. At least we hadn't booked anything yet.
Definitely sounds like you are trying to control her. To give the relationship another go would take a leap of faith on both your parts. For her to quit her job, man, that's asking a lot don't you think? You have an awful lot of expectations, and if you guys aren't even talking about the serious stuff, every one of those expectations is setting you up for disappointment.
I would agree with that, however SHE made the reservations well over a month ago knowing full-well they were non-refundable.
Yes it's a lot to ask her to quit her job, but I think a reasonable, mature person would at the very least, been pragmatic about this and addressed it proactively; not wait until the last minute.
I even offered to support her if she used this as a catalyst to find a job she at least likes, but she countered with her old tropes about not feeling secure with me. I've done nothing but give her all the flexibility and support one could ask for under such a situation. I think most would have thrown in the towel by now & said GTFO.
And still no contact from her. It's hard for me not to be angry/hurt/disappointed, but I am trying.
This is what I sent her the day after she told me she wasn't going. My therapist said it was mainly just emotional venting & most likely caused her to 'shut-down'. It's a bit harsh, but it is how I felt/feel.
*****************************
Annie, I am so profoundly disappointed in you I'm literally sick to my stomach.
You had over a month to sort this out, and given that you made the reservations in the first place, and KNEW they were non-refundable, essentially deceived me by implying there would be no issues. Imagine how you'd feel if, two days before we were supposed to leave for Cancun, I said I 'couldn't' go.
You'd be devastated.
And in usual Annie form, you waited until the last minute to approach your manager, knowing all along there wasn't a chance in hell they were going to say 'yes', regardless of whether they were short-staffed or not.
As usual, you made the decision by a process of talking to your friends, and I'm guessing your mom, but not discussing it with the person you should have; me. How do you think that makes me feel? But this is your modus operandi, and it always has been. You avoid proactively and maturely dealing with situations.
The day you made the reservations I emailed Kevin & John and others at my company letting them know my plans.
When I tried talking with you yesterday, as usual, you got mad and defensive and rambled off a litany of excuses in an attempt to deny culpability for the fact that you screwed-up, big time.
What difference would rescheduling the trip another week make? You still wouldn't be able to take vacation, and they'd still likely be short-staffed. It was a half-assed attempt to make it seem like you were trying to find a solution. Now if you had come to me with a concrete plan such as "if we can reschedule for April xx, I can take time off without pay", that would have been bad, but at least a viable solution. It would have shown me you were making a mature, considerate effort, as any decent, caring person would have done.
Ironically and sadly, you talk about the same old crap you've been saying for the last eight years when I suggested you quit; 'I'll be mean if things don't go my way & you have no security if you have no job." I hate to say it to you, but you have no job security as it is. They will flush you for any reason that suits them without hesitation and get some other stooge to replace you. You have way more security through me than you will ever have through the Renaissance.
But these are things you can't stand hearing and cannot or will not accept. I cannot have a reasonable, mature discussion with you about anything really, that in any way, shape or form makes you accountable for anything.
Seven months you have been gone now, and you have done accomplished nothing to improve your life and address the problems that you need help resolving. You have no goal, plans or intent of doing these things. I have been in therapy for almost a year now, and I've been imploring you to talk to a counselor about your issues including depression, and also see a life counselor to do something constructive with your life & you've done absolutely nothing except make excuses.
I tried very hard to make Cancun as enjoyable for you as possible. You know that I went there as part of the deal that we would go to Vail as I wasn't all that interested. I honestly feel like you took advantage of me.
It's going to take some time to process this and I'm sure you'll get angry at me over what I have said, but I feel better that I got this off my chest.
You need to grow-up Annie.
Unless you make some serious changes in your life, there is no future for us. I have been trying since you left, and in my mind, this event was an enormous setback in any forward progress we had been making.
Me: 46 Ex: 38 Married: 10 Together: 12 No Children Separated (again): 09/06/13 Divorced: 02/27/15
Ok you send that, you know what she will read out of that?
My H things he is "right" and I am "wrong" basically he doesnt accept me, he denies my feelings and as always he wants to demonstrate that I am "wrong" and he is "right".
He is judging me and trying to show me how I am a mess..
Well now that he said that I will get in what its called "defensive" mood
And man a woman in "defensive" mood its the horse of the devil
You approached all this completelly different of what Dbing says and once you take an action....you have to be ready for the consequences and for what I can read here they are not going to be smooth ones...
I know we all have "values" and beliefs, but most of them are product of EGO, a need to demonstrate that we are worth, that we do things with the best intentions, when we love somebody we dont allow them to do things in a different way and that most of the time hit us back...
I was reading yesterday about feelings validation.. A social worker was saying how when kids go to the hospital they say : I am scared...a validation for this will be: I hear you are scared, I would feel the same way...what scares you so much? And just listen... She was saying how when kids say that always somebody comes and say ; you dont have to be scared, there is nothing to ne scared, you are a grown boy, there is no reason to be scared come on! Well that its invalidation....
You are doing the same here, you are invalidating your W feelings and that will always drive her to " defensive mood" this is were you have to start using your first 180....validate doesnt mean agree, it means only listening and underestand the way they feel without giving advice or suggestions, if I want to be a firefighter I will because thats what I want, not because you tell me that its the best job for me.
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
I probably should not have sent this. A regression due to emotional upset.
Nonetheless, it doesn't remove her culpability nor the fact that she screwed-up.
It's a little difficult to take an 'I'm sorry I can't go' as an assuage to the financial & emotional disappointment in the way this was handled.
Going forward, my therapist said I'll probably need to eat some crow over this email, but the next step would be to articulate what exactly I want/need out of the relationship. If she can't or won't meet them, I need to decide whether to move on or not.
Me: 46 Ex: 38 Married: 10 Together: 12 No Children Separated (again): 09/06/13 Divorced: 02/27/15
