Gifts - DB v 5LL

[gogofo]

You are wrong, but all I did was write about the gift issue and didn't say anything nice about her. She has an uncanny ability to recognize and connect with people and their emotions. She works at a community college and knows everyone's names and kids names, etc from the president down to the janitors. Students that she does not even teach will seek her out for help because she really does care about them. She may be a lot of things, but no one would ever call her a princess.

These issues did come up and got better over time, but Christmas comes every year and forced us to have the same conversation. Her mom used to go all out early in our R, it was the only time when the MIL was growing up that her parents got along.

I think that her reluctance to see actions as genuine stem from growing up and seeing her father only take her mom serious when their relationship got bad. Her parents love each other, but get into fights and silent treatment standoffs about once a year. Her mom even got an apartment at one time when they were growing up and her father said that "she will come back, she will run out of money."

As much as she is willing to admit it or not, this effected her and her views on relationships. She was judging me at these times by basing me on what she knows from her parents relationship. Not her fault and I knew this before we got married, but my actions and motivations are not her fathers.

She is correct in that what I was doing was in reaction to her bringing it up. Her holding a score card is where I don't think her actions are correct. Whether she asks to cuddle or I cuddle with her on my own, the love and feelings behind it are the same.

It will be something she will have to work through. I brought this up early in our separation. Whether she has addressed or thought about it or not, who knows. She was more concerned about the emotional origins, for lack of a better term, of the gift than the gift itself.

[Barrybran]

"In my stupid mind when buying gifts it had to be well thought through and meaningful and useful (in my mind). Flowers seemed a bad idea because they die. etc. I was judging the gifts by my own criteria, not the person I was buying them for."

This describes me as well. So many of us just don't know how to do it not because we don't care but because we never learned the art of giving gifts. In my situation, my parents asked me every birthday and Christmas what I wanted and it was a mad dash to the shops within the last 48 hours to find something. I actually hated the lead up to Christmas for much of my early-mid 20's because of this.

[Bunches]

Gogo, I like the anaology that the reason doesn't matter as long as we give. I like it because it makes me feel better to think that way but I don't think I believe it. I remember a time when my W and I rarely ML a few years back. This frustrated me so I would mention it and though she didn't like hearing this she would react and things would get better...for a while. The more times I brought it up to make things better for a bit the less I wanted to. Because it started to feel like it was only being addressed because I complained. When this happens in relationships the person having to constantly remind the other doesn't feel confident in their importance. They start to feel that they are being appeased so they will stop nagging. I'm not saying this makes her right and you wrong. But I think we can all relate to this one way or the other. I'm sure across time, your gifts made her feel important and loved. But doubt has a way of creeping into the heart when loving actions don't come on their own.

I don't think either that you should feel bad about this. You are probably right that it stems from an experience of this past, most do. But isn't that part of her journey to figure out?

[Barrybran]

"Because it started to feel like it was only being addressed because I complained. When this happens in relationships the person having to constantly remind the other doesn't feel confident in their importance. They start to feel that they are being appeased so they will stop nagging"

Exactly why whoever I wind up with (hopefully my wife) will have to read 5LL before I can take them seriously.

[gogofo]

Bunches, I agree that it feels cheap when you get something as a reaction to a complaint.

When we were going down hill I was the one who was constantly making advances to ML. Like a lot of me this would be at night when we went to bed. (I now know better.) After a while I felt like she was only doing it to get me to stop my advances; it felt cheap. So I stopped making advances and she never made one for months.

When I stopped I also failed to realize I was slipping into neurosis/depression and I failed to notice that I was not even making advances. We lost our physical connection in the end.

So yes I do understand that it can feel cheap too, but I should have appreciated that she was ML with me because she wanted too. If she did not want to, she did not have to.

Barry, I agree with the 5LL. I would love my W to read it. When she talks about the past now I chuckle in my head at how she see things in our past. We both felt like we were working our asses off to show each other love and the other person didn't care. If she read the book I think it might change her opinion of our past.

[Barrybran]

The book has made things crystal clear for me. It's as thought Dr Chapman has been living with us this whole time. I thought my wife didn't love me and I can now recall many times that she showed her love but it was in her language and not mine. The same goes from me to her. I spent so much time chasing after the house and kids and suggesting we do things together when she responded more to gifts. Pretty silly in hindsight. I definitely want her to read it some time.

[gogofo]

Too me it is the simplest book that seems like it could have the biggest positive effect on a relationship. I hope to be able to use it.

The last R talk we had she expressed anger at me showing love or doing things that I thought she would like because it is what I liked.

[Lostforwords]

Barrybean,

See you are now into the conundrum we discussed a few weeks ago when we discussed book reading. While the 5LL is a good book, it really is a better book to be read when a relationship is good or a little stagnant....Not in the middle of practicing DB. The reason is that a WAS doesn't not want the LBS to love them or show them signs of love.

In the end all of this turns into one simple, yet always ignored fact......Marriage takes work and emotional investment 100% of the time. WE all forget that and start prodding through life making others things more important other than the foundation from which we have based our lives. In the end it takes the bomb for us to realize the error in our ways and work on ourselves to change that.

[Mach1]

I always have recommended reading 5LL more than once.

The first time was right after the bomb (because I no idea that I needed to). And the first time ended up being a "How to fix this" guide in my mind. And a " boy, I really effed this up" guilt trip for myself.

I was trying to apply the concept, and trying to force what I felt was her LL to her. After a few weeks, I realized that it put way too much focus on her, and the dead Marriage. And it made me feel as though I was manipulating, or at least trying to manipulate her feelings, instead of validating them and working on my own junk...

The second time that I read it, was about a year into DBing, and THAT was when I really started to appreciate the content, and how it related to ME, instead of picking up the broken pieces for her...

It's a great read, just be honest with your motives....

[labug]

^^^Bingo.

It doesn't matter how much time, thought, money you put into a gift, it's not a gift if it's something you like vs something that speaks to your partner.

I used to work with someone whose H bought her a new Lexus and she complained, was angry even. I thought she was crazy but when I asked her why she was angry, her explanation made sense. She liked her old car, the Lexus was too expensive, he didn't ask her if she wanted a new car, she felt he bought it more for show for him, rather than a gift for her.

He didn't take her wants or needs into account. He didn't "get" her.

They later Dd, not over this event but this behavior was probably common in their R.

My H and I took the quiz together, it has been helpful to our reconciliation.