Redefining Hope and Success

[juliegayle]

I agree. No R talk. I think she was thinking I needed to hear he wasn't interested in M but I can get the same benefit (continuing to detach) by just telling myself that is the case.

There were 2 other things we talked about today that were interesting. She asked me if he ever did want to reconcile would I? She repeated some of the more hateful things he has said and asked if I could think about being with someone capable of saying those things? This kind of threw me. I said some hateful things during fights during our marriage. The worst was threatening to move away with s. I deeply regret many things I did and said. I realize I was very flawed and am learning to be a better person. I can't go back and unsay or undo. All I can do is hope I will be better in the future with h or someone else. Shouldn't I offer him the same kind of forgiveness? But I didn't feel comfortable saying that to my therapist.

For the record, I don't think that h is thinking about R. I think his civility probably has to do with ss15 threatening to not see him.

The other thing we talked about came from one of the TED talks suggested on Melissa's thread. It made me think about how the dynamic in our m changed somehow. When h and I met he wad very quiet and reserved and I was very social and confident. He always said that and my smile are what attracted him. I had a job that had me up in front of large groups often. I had worked hard to be like that. It did not come naturally. In high school I once faked laryngitis because I was so terrified of giving an oral presentation. I practiced and got more confident and eventually became the person I was when I met my husband.

I lost so much of myself. I used to stand in a relaxed pose with my hands on my hips. Relaxed not aggressive. It was comfortable. H hated it. He said it was a sign of being bossy. I worked really hard to stop doing it. Over the years through school and work h became more social and had new friends (often female) that he would hang out with while I was home with s. I continued to become more reserved and closed until h actually said he hated me for losing myself.

My therapist confirmed that in my early sessions I huddled on the couch. Now that I am on my own I am finding myself again. I am much more open. I talk to other parents at the playground (Instead of just following s around). Random people say hi as i walk down the street.

[Georgiabelle]

Hi Julie,

I think everyone can relate to regretting things we've said in the heat of the moment. I might be a little different than most, but I don't take words seriously like I do actions. Some people are much more affected by words. Yes, they can hurt and sting. However, that doesn't mean you can't move past that.

In regards to forgiveness, it can be difficult yet important. I think regardless of the situation, one has to be able to forgive in order to truly move forward. It takes time and patience. And that can be a real challenge !

I think everyone changes to a certain degree in their marriage. Some things for the better and some for worse. I think it's great that your therapist is working with you to help you work through these things. It sounds like your confidence is coming back. It is the little things like smiling at peoples, saying hello, striking up a conversation with someone in the checkout line, etc that can make the day extra nice. You never know who felt sad and was happy that someone spoke to them or told them to have a nice day. It's certainly not why we should do it ( and I hope I don't sound hokey, however the universe has a way of ebbing and flowing. Just like our lives.

You are doing awesome:)

[bluesgal]

Julie-

Yes, your H has said and done some pretty heartless things. But, only you know the man you married. If this is completely out of character and some day he takes ownership of it and is truly sorry, then I believe forgiveness is completely possible.

I'm glad you're finding yourself again. I think so many of us lost ourselves in our M and had no idea. If we can come out of this on the other side, then this pain could be a blessing disguised.

[artsy]

^^^^ yes! The biggest goal for me through all of this is getting back the old ME! I miss her...

[juliegayle]

I guess this is a big learning for many of us. Yes a marriage should change you but it should make you better. A more complete stronger version of yourself because you are with someone who loves and supports the real you.

A good marriage should be like that right? That isn't just a romantic fantasy?

I find it interesting and sad that so many of us here didn't see how much we had lost of ourselves until it was shoved in our face in such a dramatic and hurtful way.

[melissag]

Hi Julie, I think a lot of us can relate to your recent posts. My H is a passive person (or was, until he decided he needed to overcompensate for having been passive for so many years, lucky me!). I was always strong and confident with a strong sense of self and healthy self esteem. I think that is what attracted him to me to begin with . . . but then at some point he must have been threatened by it, because he started to chip away at it.

Me asking for what I want/need was being "a pain in the ass." Stating an opinion meant I was "picky." If I complained about being hurt by him, I was criticizing him. It was important to me to do things right - that was me having unrealistic expectations. Etc. I became someone I didn't know and really didn't like much.

Just had a convo on FB DB about what good came out of BD. I got myself back. I am not 100% there - I had pretty far to go from where I started - but I am much closer to me than I have been for years.

I kind of thought that my H's own weak sense of self was the issue here . . . I hope so.

Sorry for the mini hijack -

I hope that it's possible to be yourself within a M, and for your spouse to be him/herself as well. I think it starts with loving yourself. I think that since we are doing this work, Julie, we will be in a much better place next time around (whether it is with H or someone else). The problem will be finding someone who has done the work on themselves, too. I feel like the vast majority of people walk around completely clueless. I wish therapy was required by law.

Julie, why were you uncomfortable talking to your C about forgiveness?

[juliegayle]

hey Melissa... so I'm not afraid to talk to my therapist about forgiveness. I think she would agree that forgiveness is beneficial for both physical and emotional health. What I'm nervous to talk to her about is lingering hope to someday reconcile with H. I know that could never happen until he does the same kind of work I'm doing and substance abuse treatment would be necessary.

However I don't want to be alone forever. I want companionship and love and sex and my first choice would be with the father of my child. I know that might not happen, it might not be him but I'm not closing that door.

I feel my therapist would frown upon me saying that. She asked last session could I ever want to be with someone who would say this or could I ever consider being with someone who would say that. I was embarrassed to say yes- if he did the work and that I don't necessarily think he is a man in his right mind talking. So maybe I need to talk to her about that before it really damages the therapy relationship I've never been to therapy before so I don't know if there's a line she crossed being too much on my side and not being unbiased.

On the other hand, are there some things you just can't come back from?

[melissag]

Julie, I don't think that a C has to be unbiased. An MC has to be unbiased, to be sure. But your C's job is to help you.

Why do you think your C would frown upon you saying that the door is not entirely closed with respect to your H? Maybe she is not asking the question to judge or correct you, but to get you to think about these things.

I think you need to feel comfortable being honest in IC. Maybe you should just talk with your C directly about this. Tell her what you just wrote here. If she doesn't respond the way you would like, or you are uncomfortable being yourself with her, then you should find yourself a new C.

I am sure for everyone, there are things they can't come back from. Only you know what you can come back from, and my guess is you won't really know unless the opportunity presents itself. There was a long while where I thought if H would com back, I would be soooo excited. Now, I think it would be extremely difficult to go there at all, and honestly I might be kind of mad. Granted, that hasn't happened, and who can know until it really happens? To answer your question, I guess only time will tell.

[bluesgal]

Julie-I get what you are saying about the counseling. It seems like being a "standing" spouse is rather unheard of in the counseling world. I know my C wants me out of limboland someday and that requires a decision that I'm not ready to make and my H is unable to make.

I am still searching inside myself right now. I've never said "I'm standing for this marriage" or "I'm not going to take this and I am getting out". When I truly reflect, I am in as much limbo as H. Getting back to you. What I'm trying to say is that whatever your decision is: To stand or to get out, I think you should confidently tell your C and ask for guidance/support in that direction.

There is nothing weak or embarassing about giving your all to saving your M. And only you know that your H is not in a good place.

[juliegayle]

Thanks mel and blues. I am going to talk to her about my concerns next session. I don't go back for a few weeks as I had to schedule around s spring break. I am not going to dwell on It like the old me would have. I made a note in my notebook.