A further question I have as she seeks D- I know I've lost her respect. If I confront what I know about her ongoing A and agree to the D saying that I don't want to be a second choice anyway- is she more likely to respect that or resent that? Or do I just STFU and continue to let her do most of the D work? I mentioned Retro to her a month ago and she said she didn't want anybody else involved in our problems. Mention it again?
Who you respect more the people that were there once you choose something and they supported you no matter the outcome or the people that when you choosed something they stopped talking to you and not support you no matter what decission you took?
Think about it...
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
True, ye- I'm not saying I wouldn't support her if she chooses to go through with D. We still have the kids to connect us. I feel as though by accepting the D and not speaking up about the A I miss a chance to gain respect. She knows I'm willing to forgive and reconcile, so saying anything more is a moot point, right? I don't want her to think I'm not fighting for her. I wish I could take back what I did- I devalued her and our relationship. All the apologies, changes over the last 6 months weren't enough. Does she just need more time? My mistakes showed her that "she wasn't enough for me" (her words), and though that is not at all true, I realize that what I did certainly conveyed that. I fear that by not fighting her against the D it shows her the same.
Bro fighting against the D it doesnt mean not giving her the D, it means working on yourself...and collaborating with her if this is what she wants....time will tell her if this is what she really wants...not you, you can not tell her: you are doing a mistake let US fix it...because she doesnt see this a istake, she sees this as a choice and thats all, it hurts? Yes it does but now its when you "support" her by not getting on her way...
I love you honey but I need to have another man....its fine I am just gonna move on with my life, recover and move on if that doesnt fit my concept of a Relationship.... Now who is the one who has to change to be with you? Can you see it?
Its simple, hard to do it but simple... She has to find respect for you and respect its something you earn with actions towards improving yourself.... Hey love I have changed and now I am giving you all my love unconditionally because I wasnt ready before----no respect
You taking care of yourself and accepting her decission without going against her....what reasons she has to continue affair or keep being upset? Less than you telling her to stop...
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Just want to make sure I understand. You first had an EA. Felt guilty about it and encouraged your W to flirt with other men? Then when you discover she was in an A, your EA ended?
Did she ever understand the true reasons behind you telling her to flirt with other men? This is very important.
Did your A aburbly end? Was it really b/c you discovered her A? How did you find out about it? Have you had any contact at all with the OW since ending your EA?
I know these may seem like a lot of questions, but it helps me to get a better picture.
Loss of respect is serious. I won't say it is impossible for her to respect you again, but if she can......it will take longer than you probably realize. Do you understand that it wasn't your EA, alone, that caused the most damage? In my thinking, it would be the personal inner damage to her feminine soul when you encouraged her to flirt with other men.......and then she found out about the OW.
Men say that the worst pain they can experience is personal betrayal of their W having an A. He gets his focus more on the OM, instead of the problems that led to the A. He wants to go pun h his lights out....and that is his way of fighting for the M (in a nutshell). If he's smart and comes to the DB board, he quickly learns that is not how one fights to save his M.
Now if I had been in your W's shoes, I would have a lot of different emotions about what you did. When you talked to her about flirting, what exactly did you tell her? I mean, flirting covers a broad span for some folks. Some people think just a wink is flirtatious, and then some say sexting is flirting. I guess what I am getting at here is.....could she have felt as though you were whoring her out, so to speak? Even if not, it had to have made her feel inadequate somehow, or made her wonder why her H would ask her to do such a thing.
I don't say these things to make you feel worse, goodness knows I was in a bad stitch when I came here myself! If I can help you in some small way to better understand how most WAW's in a A feel or think, I will try. But I usually have to ask questions in the beginning. Unlike Bond (and most other men here), 25mlc and I have a harder time saying it in few words. . Your thread's title will probably catch her eye and she will be a great help to you.
I know you are feeling very sad and hopeless, but try to make out the personal goals you want to improve as a man. That is where your self respect must start.....and that is where her respect for you will begin. She has already noticed, but it will take time for her to trust again.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"Just want to make sure I understand. You first had an EA. Felt guilty about it and encouraged your W to flirt with other men? Then when you discover she was in an A, your EA ended?"
Yes- at the time, I felt it was guilt. Now after months of IC and antidepressants I am understanding more about why I did that, and the truth is hard (for both of us). More on that below.
"Did she ever understand the true reasons behind you telling her to flirt with other men? This is very important."
I have told her more since as I've uncovered more. I was exposed to pornography at a young age (10). Over the last couple of years it became an addiction that I only recently put a stop to. The fantasy aspect led me to objectifying her. I am understanding that now and I am ashamed of it. I don't know how I got to that point as I was never that way with it (or with her) for the first dozen years of our relationship.
"Did your A aburbly end? Was it really b/c you discovered her A? How did you find out about it? Have you had any contact at all with the OW since ending your EA?"
My EA fizzled for a couple weeks- we stopped texting- but I work with her. After I started seeing IC in October (3 weeks after I discovered my W's A) it became professional business only. I found out about W's A by texts on her phone. My contact with OW is professional only now. It was hard to break off, but I am glad I did.
You are not making me feel worse Sandi- I am horrified by what I did and what poor boundaries I had. Only in the last few weeks have I come to realize how deeply I hurt my wife by my actions, and I can totally see how she doesn't trust me or my changes. I had been thinking that over the last 5 months or so, she would trust them lasting. As we've moved forward with this D, and we've had deeper talks (mostly me listening, validating, and realizing the depth of what I did), I am starting to accept that time and distance-- and more time and distance than I ever realized--will be the only way she will trust me again. If she ever does.
I do not blame my W. I've uncovered a lot about myself in IC. Quite frankly, at times it has been scary and sad. I don't know how I became what I was-- in a nutshell: close family deaths, best friend death, subsequent distancing from God, and father's increasing alcoholism all played a part into my depression-spiral. I'm getting the help I so sorely needed. As my W said "why did it take me doing something so horrible to get your attention?" I don't know, but I'm glad something did. There is still love there between us, but the trust will take a long time to come back. I hope it does, for my kids especially. But I realize I need to have no expectations. I'm so sad at how I hurt her. I'm continuing to work, to change, to becoming the happy, funny, confident man I was for the first long portion of our relationship. I'm happy about that...just deeply saddened at the destruction I caused my family and my wife's heart.
Very sad, indeed. Dealing with our own demons (whatever you want to call it) is tough. For me, part of the terrible sadness is b/c I can't back up and delete it. I have to forever live with the fact I hurt my H worse than any pain he has ever known. It is not easy.
As long as you can tell you are getting better by the IC sessions, then stick with it. Don't allow this bad part of your life define who and what YOU really are. Yes, you have to deal with the fallout, which is huge. But identify the enemy that wormed its way into your soul and began to overtake your life. Claim the person you know you can be, and determine to walk in that direction every single day. Those days you get punched in the gut so hard you can't breathe..........you have to reach out to God to give you the strength and grace to get up the next day and go again. B/c you have to have a source of inner power. It has to be like daily food for you.
I suppose this all sounds like a bunch of dime store psychology, but I don't mean it that way at all. It is from my heart. You are in a battle for self respect. You are eat up with guilt and heartache. You said you had distanced yourself from God, and if I may say this.....find your way back to Him, first.
Okay, so what to do about your W. I wish I could give you wonderful advice and encouragement in how to work this all out with her. It will take that four letter word...T.I.M.E. Even with forgiveness, only time can heal deep, open wounds. Nature teaches us that care, rest, and time is what is needed to heal.
Would she agree to a separation first, instead of jumping right into divorce? If she would, then it could give you that physical space from each other that she is wanting. Has she talked about her EA and how seriously she feels for OM or where this is headed? How much do you think this a revenge A?
Let me say this, I believe as long as there is still some love at the very depth of all that has happened.....there is hope. As you work on yourself, keep that hope in your heart. You will have to prove yourself over time. Most men worry how they can do that if she's not living with him to see his changes. Don't get bogged down in that type of concern. If you really change for yourself.......she will know. But it will be up to her to decide to trust or not. I can't stress enough how much time that could take. So, you must move forward to live as best you can and be as happy as you can (even without her).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Great post Sandi, I needed to read that...exactly what you said whats necessary for me today as well
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Thanks so much Sandi. Hope is all I can have...and the ability to wait for quite some T.I.M.E. It is not dime store psychology...in fact, much mirrors what my IC has been telling me.
"Would she agree to a separation first, instead of jumping right into divorce? If she would, then it could give you that physical space from each other that she is wanting. Has she talked about her EA and how seriously she feels for OM or where this is headed? How much do you think this a revenge A? "
We separated for a month in January--in hindsight, it may have only allowed her "strong feelings" for OM to strengthen. Her EA is/was also a PA. She has not talked about where it's headed (he is married)...so unless he divorces his wife also... And I think much of it started as a revenge A...but it got out of hand for her. Some of that is mind-reading, I know, but I just don't have any answers without snooping around, which I won't do. I can't control her or her timeline, so I must focus on what I can control, and hope (there's that word) for my family to become whole again after I peel back some more painful layers.
We are going over negotiations for D. Her L has the paperwork, and should be filed early next week. She talks about missing me and possibility of R down the road if we both fix our issues. I don't know what to believe of that, but I'm staying out of her way...going along with D even though that's not what I want. I know I have a lot to change. We have our 2 young ones to co-parent....and since there's so much of my trust to earn back over time, friendship advised in this case? I think, though I don't want to be "just friends", that where our M failed, I need to be one for her to help regain that trust. I know I shattered her so if that's a part of me she doesn't want to let go of, should I be there for her when she needs it? Your advice? Thanks so much for all you have commented on so far.
. Your thread's title will probably catch her eye and she will be a great help to you. 