Yes, you should not just try, you should make it happen.
I agree with bug! Set up the appointment, let the C know your goal and inform your H of the date/time/location. If he comes and participates, great! If not, then you discuss what the C thinks is best for the kids. She will make a note that your H did not attend. You will have given him an opportunity to discuss without Ls involved. It is a win/win.
3, I do think we should all meet with a child Psych, but that will happen a bit down the road. I have that in the works for the kids to meet with her, and I will invite H to speak with the C as well. She will probably have some things to talk to both of us about!
As far as talking with H, I was thinking not with a child psych but just with a regular therapist or someone who is well versed in D - that would give us a safe place to talk and we could go there when needed to ensure a better co-parenting R.
How would I broach the subject to my H?
Something like,
"H, I agree it would be best for us and our children going forward to have more open lines of communication. I think the best way to achieve that is with the help of a therapist who is well versed in divorce and co-parenting. Let me know if you are willing to do this."
??
I am trying to avoid any blame or sounding patronizing or controlling. My H is extremely sensitive to every communication from me and tends to view it in the most negative light possible, so I want to keep it as clean as I can.
Yes, Bug, I agree with you - if he does agree, I will go in with an open mind and do a lot of listening. I learned my lesson after going to MC with my H several years ago, and realizing in retrospect that I had gone in wanting to be right. (Cringe.)
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
I'm trying to stay away from posting since I'm sitting on the hypocrite couch. I've got a fair amount of emotions to deal with IRL and am very aware that what I say on the BB just might come across as projection. So please know that I am restraining only because of that. But if it helps to inject some of what I'm dealing with to translate here, well, then okay. I was always told not to take advice from anyone more f*cked up than I am. LOL.
I'm first gonna go back a couple posts - where Melissa commented that she likes to cross off to do lists and keep things happy, if not neutral. And that she doesn't like drama. In some cases, my friend, this very dynamic creates drama. Emotions are the GPS system in our "car". They exist because we are human and are inherently designed to point us to where we need to go - as long as we are using them as the guide and not someone else's screwed up map.
I know you didn't know me way back when, Melissa, but I truly do share so many of the traits that you have. Since I'm not here to diagnose YOU, I'll share my IC's diagnosis of ME. Those lists, while very helpful in many aspects of life, served other, far less productive purposes. My lists gave me a false sense of what was important. After all, if I put it on the list, it *was* important. But the moment that I was challenged on the priority of those lists, my false walls crumbled to the ground in pieces. And I was left with me. A me who couldn't cope without that structure, and a me who was left standing questioning the very core of my being. And when I woke up and smelled the coffee (after about 6 months of weekly sessions with my C), I was able to see that my incessant need for control was my own coping mechanism for "dealing" with chaos. I could pretend the chaos around me didn't exist if it wasn't important to me (i.e., watching my own H spiral out of control) or if it didn't make me happy. The problem with this whole facade is that it WAS a facade. I wasn't happy, and I didn't see this as a bad thing. Until I saw it as a bad thing.
And only then could I sit my ass down and start evaluating how I really felt. I learned to accurately define and use the emotions properly: confused, irritated, unhappy, angry. And then the hard work began. Like many people here, who didn't see the gift in the ugly wrapping, I started out rejecting theories. I was challenged here on the BB. In fact, some of my posting buddies strongly suggested that I look at Byron Katie's work. And then once I saw my flawed detour routes to avoid those emotions that I don't enjoy feeling, I actually had to acknowledge that they were there and to figure out WHY.
You know sometimes your GPS doesn't work? It doesn't know road blocks because a water main broke. Or it doesn't see that tomorrow's parade closed all the downtown routes. You simply can't say that a GPS is fail proof. Sometimes you have to rely on instinct, free will and a little luck. But if you're smart, you realize that you DO have a better chance of getting to your destination with a combination of map, GPS and some basic knowledge - and maybe even someone in your car who can guide you or be your co-captain.
What I'm getting at is that emotions are your friend. You simply can't see them as crumbs on your table that you can brush off and then sweep up off the ground. They're there to guide you to the place where you need to go. That's why if you ever read some of mine or Wonka's posts elsewhere, we define that corner in the back of Starbucks as our discomfort sofa. You can't jump off it because it hurts. You have to sit there and contemplate WHY it hurts. And only then do you let yourself off of it.
So I'm not going to come here and debate issue of the parenting plan. That's for you and your H to figure out. And it's probably going to be very, very helpful to get a neutral 3rd party in who can weigh in on the best interest of the kids. Melissa, courts are pretty favorable to mothers. So try to drop the fear that you won't be able to do that job. It might look a little different down the road, but have faith that wisdom and common sense will prevail.
Bug said something that you wondered - and that was about future communication and safe places. And yes, I can speak from experience that Mr. Wonderful and I started out in a very crappy place and wound up in a really good place. It took time and effort. Lots of time and practice.
I know this sounds stupid, but one day, he came over and we decided to go out to the patio and play cribbage together. He wasn't coming over to play games - he was assigned by the mediator to start communicating with me on what he wanted. We were still resentful, and it got in our way. So as we played cribbage (it probably helped that he's a way better player than I am, and he probably beat the pants off of me), we started talking. It was so much easier to talk while doing something else. It forced us to listen.
I remember it being a breezy, warm day. We were both drinking beer and he said to me, "I think what I really want is for you to give me the benefit of the doubt initially. If you don't understand why, I'd like you to be open to listening to me. And I'll do the same for you." It was kind of like our pinky swear from that moment on. I won't lie or exaggerate that we've had our pasts come up and get in the way now and then. (Sh!t. Last night. Now I need to call him and apologize. Thanks for nothing. LOL) But I think at this point we're practiced enough to do that.
And in essence, that's what I will say. Practice your listening skills. Rather than react or respond, repeat what he just said back to him. Yes, I use this in sales every day, and it's helpful for ME to make sure that I understand my client or prospect in the manner they want to be heard. I can't tell you how often I do that and I'm corrected. So try to add to your skill set by doing what Steven Covey suggests: begin with the end in mind. The end being, "I will hang up after talking to him and feel good about how I handled things on my end." Start there.
It might even be helpful at some point to let him know that you're doing things differently because you want to learn how to communicate better with him. In sales we say, "tell them what I'm going to tell them, tell them, and then recap what I've told them". It really does work.
And now I need to get off this computer to call Mr. Wonderful and apologize for how I handled myself last night. I didn't do this, and he was very frustrated with me.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Haha! Looks like we're all cross posting and saying the same thing!
For the record, I just called Mr. W. He answered and I said, "Hey, you have a sec?" He sighed a big sigh and got quiet and said, "Yeaaaaahhhhhh. I guess so. What's up?" I said, "Wow, nice. What's that about?" He gave me a weird answer, which tells me that he's avoiding the truth with me, isn't open to telling me what's on his mind or doesn't have the time, and decided it wasn't about me, and moved on.
So I said, "I need to apologize for being a butt last night. You didn't deserve it." He perked right up and said, "Huh? What were you a butt about?" I said, "For assuming I knew what you were telling me and finishing your sentence before you could. I'm sorry about that." His answer? "It's really annoying, and apology accepted."
And we ended the call on a very happy note. Memo to me. Make sure I do this more often when it's called for.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I am going to recommend the two communication books that I've found extremely helpful to me.
Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life by Marshall B. Rosenberg
The Lost Art of Listening: How Learning to Listen Can Improve Relationships by Michael P. Nichols
This can applied to the workplace, family, kids, and H. These books also uses concrete examples as the nuts and bolts that you can actually use in everyday life.
