Afraid I have waited too long

[zew]

Well since I'm here, I'm no expert, but I'll give you the pep talk, for what it's worth.

You discussed the financial reality. If it was a heated argument, that's a setback. If it wasn't an argument, as you suggest, then she probably heard about half of it, and it will have no bearing on anything.

I know I can't control what happens.

Well you can't control what she's doing, anyway, so stop letting it bug you so much.

but I hope I didn't drive her farther away and into the OM arms.

I don't think the money talk has anything to do with that. The OM is another addiction altogether. And you know you can't do anything about it, so stop tormenting yourself.

In other folk's experiences, do these type of discussions sometimes lead to the WAW rethinking their desire to R?

If it were that easy, we would all be spending ourselves broke, then having the conversation. But seriously, I would hope that reality eventually clears WAW thinking, but financial concerns are NOT going to be the big "Aha!" driver. It's going to take seeing that staying has different and better possibilities than last time.

So I think you're way overthinking this one.
Relax. GAL and detach - what on earth do her "likes" on social media have to do with YOUR future.

I noticed recently that the first thing my W reads in the morning is her horoscope. Really? That's what holds the fate of my M? That's my first reminder every day to stay detached and get to work on me. I can't torment myself waiting for my future to be decided by someone watching the stars.

[zew]

Oh and this:

It is just me but if an A is happening either EA/PA or both. I would have thought by now if there was any hope of a future with the OM my W would have told me by now.

She's not going to tell you anything, maybe not ever. And she's not thinking of the future. She is very much living the here and now, with reckless disregard of the future. In her mind, the future is all rosy, and detail free.

Nit, you've been seriously attached for the last few days. STOP IT. Consider this M over, and start building yourself up for the chance at a new one. Everyone keeps saying this here, and it may sound bogus, but it is your best shot. I mean, after you eliminate all the stuff that doesn't work, this is what's left.
[and yes, I sound tough right now, knowing full well that I'll have the same despair periodically too]

[nit84]

One more thought did she tell me she was going away to see my reaction? Other than her telling me twice that she was going for a few days I made no mention of it or had a reaction good or bad.

One other question should I have said something this morning when she asked me if I had anything else to tell her before she left? You know have fun be careful etc.. I just said no and asked if she had anything to tell me.

Not trying to guess or mind read, Did she tell me she was going away so I would know it is with the OM and that relieves her of actually saying the words that come along with a confession. Thinking I am not stupid and I have to know something is going on because of how she is acting?

Sorry, just confused

[nit84]

zew,

Thanks for the 2x4, I still feel I am doing a good job just need a pep talk now and again.

I know this M is over and I am working hard to facilitate a new M with my W. Either way I will be fine. I know that.

The conversation had to be had and there will be more I am sure. I did a great job in my mind anyway this morning.

What I have been posting lately is more my need to know that I am doing everything the best possible way given that each sitch is different.

I am more confident than ever in my self to be able to handle the conflict part of discussions. It is my, In my own head, way of explaining things that causes me to worry and backslide on myself.

I know it could be just the way W takes it that makes it seem like I am not doing a good job of communicating my thoughts or feelings. I understand I don't control that.

What I post on is just venting and brainstorming.

Thanks for keeping me straight!!

[nit84]

I also know now that if I wanted to end the M I could do it today and be ok with it.(maybe)

To Me it is just like smoking or drinking.


I always told my W I could quit in a day so if she quit and asked me to quit also I would. This was a precursor of us having kids that we both quit smoking.

She quit but had a difficult time doing so but did not ask me to quit. I kept smoking for about 4 months and then quit cold turkey because I decided in 10 seconds I didn't want to smoke anymore and I should support my W.


Same thing with drinking, My W never asked me to stop just said "the drinking doesn't help stuff sometimes".

Again, But after the S, I said no more and haven't drank in 8 months.

It really makes her mad that I could do this at the drop of a hat. I did both things for the W and M.

I get the too little too late aspect of it but it is somewhat comical how upset the W gets when she brings up the no drinking and other changes she sees.

She must have told a bunch of mutual friends that there no way he could keep these things up and he will falter and revert back. So far I haven't, hopefully I wont, I believe in myself and that is what counts most.

I am choosing to stand for my M I love my wife dearly but could leave tomorrow if I so choose. I just feel that a renewed M with my W is still worth fighting for. I just want to do it correctly this next time.

I apologize for being all over the map some days and cant say that I will not backslide on here sometimes.

I believe in DB and, even though I sometime whine and cry here, think it has kept me and W from completely abandoning ship.

[nit84]

Hey everyone,

I'm back from the amusement park. What a roller coaster that was yesterday!!

I still am questioning some things but I am letting it go because it does me no good to ponder things I cant control.

The underlying thing is I just want to make sure that I am doing everything possible correctly, that is within my control, to give me the best chance at my end goal.

That is what sends me spinning.

Thanks zew for the 2x4 and if there need to more feel free.

I truly do love my W that last post^^^ was more of a frustrated entry.

[nit84]

Asking for some veteran help.

I was just taking a shower and getting ready for some GALing today. When I had a strong feeling came across me.

I have had these before and around half the time I am correct. So that is why I feel I would like to be prepared.

This feeling is that my W, when she returns from being away for the weekend(She told me she was going, I didn't ask), is going to either confess or admit to an A. I am not going ask her or confront her. I think she will do it on her own, for her own reasons.

Are there any specific threads that anybody knows about and would recommend from members where an A is not a deal breaker that could help me to sort out what to say. Whether it be an admittance or a confession preferably some of both types that might be helpful.

They are two different things and must be handled in different manners correct?

If it had to be one or the other, I would hope that it is a confession and some, even if only a smidge of remorse to start, is shown.

I feel if it is an admittance that will be tougher to deal with because the likelyhood of remorse is greatly diminished. This would be more of a "I am having an A, it is what I want, and wanted to be up front with you." Even though I feel she hasn't really been up front about anything so far in our S.

Whichever it might be I believe in myself to handle it in a way that will be non-confrontational and not hurt my Sitch, it will just add another thing to the list to work on if we R.

The possibility of this happening is not making me spin or worry about it. It is just a feeling I have at the moment.

My DB coach and I touched just briefly on this in my last session but only talked about what type of person I am in regards to, if an A is found out, wanting to ask questions as many questions as possible about an A vs not wanting to know any details and just knowing that an A is taking place is enough. I told her TBH I wasn't sure. She said that is ok don't stress over it and do some research to help figure it out.

Thanks for any help!!

[nit84]

Pondering this thought this morning.

I honestly feel that whatever happens from here on out I will be ok no matter what.

This is in keeping with DB principles. I feel, for the most part, that I have done a good job at detaching I am not totally there yet but I don't know if I ever be fully detached even if we are never together again.

I am the type of person that thinks about how people are doing even if I am no longer friends with them.

Anyway back to my thought.

I feel and say that I am detached enough to make life bearable again, I realize that I will have some days worse than others, my problem is what if I am not and I am just keeping a PMA and fooling myself?

If and when my W brings up a R talk or worse, how will I react?
Is this self doubt part of the process?

I know I can validate and empathize till the cows come home now.

My problem is, is validating and empathizing enough or is there something else that comes next?

More 180's I suppose?

If my W felt like she was not an equal partner(something that she expressed to me about 5 months ago) in our M and I attempt to show her that I think she was and still is by asking her opinion on things like what color should we paint a room or what style of carpet is best, what happens if she says" I don't think we should fix up the house and just put it on the market"? Me asking things such as this, is this a form of pressure or pursuing?

I want to fix up the house for 2 reasons First, because if we have to sell it it will possibly get a better offer and second, because I would like to feel good about where I live and improvements are always a nice way to do that, I feel. It is a shame I didn't do anything about this sooner but oh well it is what it is.

I can explain it this way to my W no problem but that is telling her my feelings and if she is against it and I still proceed with these things I want to do, Is that not forcing or controlling the situation? Something my W thought I did a lot of during our M.

And also by doing so, am I not allowing my W to feel like an equal partner?

I am confused by things like this in my sitch. My wife is used to the way I was not how I am now. The "its too little too late" phrase comes to mind.

I don't let that affect me and will continue improving myself for me. I understand the W feeling as she does and can only validate and empathize with her.

If she gets upset with me because I was never like this previously in our M, I know I must let her have those feelings because they are hers and hers alone. This just means that she may be taking notice that I am not sitting idle and letting myself wallow in self pity and I am doing everything I can to create a good situation that will allow for a possible R without expectations or R though.

Comments, thoughts, advice welcomed please.

[AnotherStander]

The underlying thing is I just want to make sure that I am doing everything possible correctly, that is within my control, to give me the best chance at my end goal.

Do you feel like you're walking on eggshells around W? I bet you do. Here's the deal, you need to live your life and quit worrying about whether every little thing you're doing is going to fix your M. Right now there is no fixing it, it's broken beyond repair. Like Zew said, your goal is a new M at some time in the future. For now 100% of your focus should be on YOU and being the best person that you can be.

If it had to be one or the other, I would hope that it is a confession and some, even if only a smidge of remorse to start, is shown.

You have GOT to stop all this spinning and drop all the expectations! You're now expecting her to confess (which she probably won't because affairs go hand-in-hand with lying and secrecy) and you're already trying to work up a response. Can you see what will happen to you when she returns and acts as if nothing is going on? You're trying to prepare for a convo that she may never initiate! IF she ever says anything to you, THEN you can tell her you need time to think about it and THEN you can formulate a response with input from here.

If and when my W brings up a R talk or worse, how will I react?

Like I said above, you don't have to react right away. If she drops news on you then you tell her you need some time to contemplate it and you take that time. This is the best approach because you can never anticipate what she is going to tell you, if you guess then you will guess wrong. Quit focusing on her! Get out and GAL!

If my W felt like she was not an equal partner(something that she expressed to me about 5 months ago) in our M and I attempt to show her that I think she was and still is by asking her opinion on things like what color should we paint a room or what style of carpet is best, what happens if she says" I don't think we should fix up the house and just put it on the market"? Me asking things such as this, is this a form of pressure or pursuing?

Did she explain to you what she meant by that comment? Because it sounds to me like you're guessing she meant things like choosing finishes when in fact she may have meant something completely different. For example, she may have meant asking her whether a room should be remodeled at all. So if you go to her and ask her for finishes input, you may think you're doing a 180 but she may think "same old H, he decides to remodel a room without even consulting me first, he'll never change."

I want to fix up the house for 2 reasons First, because if we have to sell it it will possibly get a better offer and second, because I would like to feel good about where I live and improvements are always a nice way to do that, I feel. It is a shame I didn't do anything about this sooner but oh well it is what it is.

But what does SHE want?

[nit84]

AS,

Thanks for the quick response after my message to you. It didn't need to be that immediate but it is greatly appreciated.

First, I'll address the house. In W opinion which could change as time passes we should not do anything to the house and just sell it. I have thoughts on why this is the way she feels but I will let them go because it is mindreading.

As far as an equal partnership, I never really brought anything up about remodeling ever. That is my fault for not having the motivation to do these type things that she said she would like done so I never had to consult her on this issue but I certainly would have if I wasn't so lazy and took on these projects.

My 180 on this is just actually doing some of these things W wanted done and need done. She has told me a couple times "why do it now? you are just throwing it in my face." I empathized and validated that and told her that it needs done IMO whether it is too late or not for us.

You are correct when you say it could be something different that she is talking about when she told me she felt unequal. I'm positive it had to do with who handles the finances and plans vacations etc. I always handled these things because W would say whatever is fine with me and even though I would ask for input it 95% of the time ended up being what I suggested.

My 180 on this is having her pay all the bills since the S and she has done a great job. I honestly always wanted this way but after the numerous bounced checks early in our M the finances were always left to me. Every couple years I asked if W wanted to take over and she said "no why change it is working out this way."

Just this morning I was thinking of suggesting she just transfer money from my account to hers when she needs to pay a bill. She gets paid on an uneven schedule with her odd job so she never knows if she will have money for her share of the bills or not when they come due.

We still have joint accounts so we both have access to all our money. As it stands right now I transfer my share 50% to her when she schedules a payment. If she just transfers money herself she can pay the bill whenever instead of waiting for her to receive her pay. I don't even mind if I have to pay more of a portion of the bills because she lost her job.

Do I suggest this or leave it as is? I may be a fool but I do trust her when it comes to this aspect of our S. It would just give her more flexibility when it comes to paying bills. Something that I had when I paid the bills because that is what I did was transfer money from her account(with her knowledge of course)when she got paid.

I know I have to stop spinning so much. I know I can step away from a R talk if I don't feel comfortable and return later. If this ever happened before I always needed to talk things out right then. It most always led to an argument or a screaming match. Since the S I have been much better at this and hope the next time W brings up a R talk I can continue making progress.

I don't feel like I am walking on eggshells so much as I am probably overthinking things I want to say to my W. I do a lot of "if I tell her this or that will it get me closer to my goal or push her away". Doesn't MWD suggest doing this in DR?

TBH, I try to have no expectations and I do GAL as much as I can(there is always more that can be done). I don't worry really if my GALing will upset the W its more of the joint things I think and worry about. Bills, house etc. I do my own thing and W does hers.

When she talks to me I listen and may add a few things but then if the conversation lags I remove myself and go do something else. Sometimes she will come back and want to say a few more things and I will again indulge her.

These type of interactions have been occurring more frequently lately but I still have no expectations.

AS far as the A if there is one, I will do like you said and take my time and formulate a proper response. BTW, When she came back from her weekend away nothing was said but it almost felt like she missed me. She was very talkative and engaging but then it was back to more of the same from her as a WAW.

It gets confusing and I just want to ask W, "Why talk to me sometimes and not others? You have told me what you desire for our R and I respect that so why can't we interact more? I don't think we are at odds anymore with each other and we have an understanding now. I'm not talking about going out or even eating together just a little communication about what is currently going on in the news or with our families etc"

I could probably phase it better but along those lines.

We talk about these things sometimes always brought up by her and it is nice then boom, it is right back to as if she can't stand the site of me.

Is it ok to ask her feeling on these type interactions or is that pressure/pursuit?

Last night was a good night by our standards so maybe tonight will be also! I am going to act "as if". The money transfer issue is something I would like feedback on if possible.

Thanks for anybody's thoughts or comments